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Teachers' strike Feb 14


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#1 ***MEZ***

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

In Vic. Too soon in the new year or early enough not to be too much of an imposition?

#2 Mpjp is feral

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:20 PM

Bloody annoying is what it is.

But I suppose that's the point.

My work are not impressed - all this time off over Xmas...and now more time for strikes. Lucky I can get the time. I know several families at school that can not (having used all their leave and working in positions such as health where you just cant let every parent have the day off), and have no alternatives so kids are staying at home by themselves.

#3 maurie

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

AT least it's not on one of my work days this time  - looks like I will have dd and a bunch of her friends over.

#4 TheGreenSheep

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:33 PM

Fortunately its on my day off this time. So frustrating for the kids too, DS loves school.

#5 Rachaelxxx

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:36 PM

Why the hell can't they just sort this out.  It's gone on way too long and don't get me wrong I back our teachers 150% and I know they want the parents to suffer, but why.  We signed petition after petition at our school.  Let's be honest, us as parents are really powerless and this is just another thing we have to put up with.

Ohhh and for the record I am working and our school will have already had a student free day in the mix as well  sad.gif

#6 Lyra

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE (Rachaelxxx @ 21/01/2013, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why the hell can't they just sort this out.  It's gone on way too long and don't get me wrong I back our teachers 150% and I know they want the parents to suffer, but why.  We signed petition after petition at our school.  Let's be honest, us as parents are really powerless and this is just another thing we have to put up with.

Ohhh and for the record I am working and our school will have already had a student free day in the mix as well  sad.gif



You can also choose not to vote for the current Govt at the next state election. Not that it helps you know, of course. My daughter is at a non-government school so she is not affected. My son goes to a government school so will be having the day off.

#7 ***MEZ***

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

Rachael, the govt won't negotiate at all, despite pledging to make us the best paid in Oz. We are just asking for less than what the nurses and police got (12% over 3 years-not much more than CPI) and no rubbish performance pay ideas. Baillieu will not negotiate.

#8 Rachaelxxx

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

Mez, I'm with you guys on this one.  In fact this year I will be working in the office at my girls school.  I just had a look at my calendar and for the month of February we have 2 student free days and this teachers strike, that's 3 days in the first month back.

So what ends up happening when the government just will not budge.  I was told that things are going to get pretty messy.  No teachers will be attending school sports, outside activities, school camps etc, it's not going to be a good year is it.

#9 kadoodle

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

A strike for Valentine's day.  How very romantic of them.  

The kids and I will be marching in solidarity if I don't have to work.  If I do, they they'll be wearing PPE and "helping" me.

#10 ~Tranquillity~

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

That's my son's birthday. He'll be thrilled he gets to stay home!

#11 MrsLexiK

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

At least the traffic will be light!!!!

If I was a parent with a child at school it would really peeve me off.  But then I see no issue with performance based pay for everyone as all the industry's I have worked in over the years have had this.  Even my sister a nurse is for performance base pay.

#12 ***MEZ***

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

This will drag on till the next election, I would imagine, then be some sort of vote-buying exercise from both labor and liberal. (As it was last time!) The 38 hour week bans start on the first day back for us and I think that will really highlight the out of hours work teachers do. My school has already cancelled the annual musical and every camp bar yr 7 (massive non refundable deposit had been paid). It has been 2 years and they absolutely will not budge. I think it's really going to get ugly.

#13 ***MEZ***

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

Mrslexik, there's no way of quantifying how good a teacher really is using data. Too many variables. We have different students in different classes, subjects, schools, suburbs etc. all it does is stop collaboration and collegiality. It has been abandoned overseas as useless and was an abject failure under Kennett as well.

#14 Lyra

Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:19 PM

QUOTE (***MEZ*** @ 21/01/2013, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This will drag on till the next election, I would imagine, then be some sort of vote-buying exercise from both labor and liberal. (As it was last time!) The 38 hour week bans start on the first day back for us and I think that will really highlight the out of hours work teachers do. My school has already cancelled the annual musical and every camp bar yr 7 (massive non refundable deposit had been paid). It has been 2 years and they absolutely will not budge. I think it's really going to get ugly.


My husband was wondering about the knock-on effects for all the places that have camps etc. Obviously, they will get income from non-govt schools but surely it will still have an impact


QUOTE (***MEZ*** @ 21/01/2013, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mrslexik, there's no way of quantifying how good a teacher really is using data. Too many variables. We have different students in different classes, subjects, schools, suburbs etc. all it does is stop collaboration and collegiality. It has been abandoned overseas as useless and was an abject failure under Kennett as well.


this is so true. I also think there is a massive misunderstanding about what teachers actually 'do'. I had the discussion recently with someone about all the holidays and why don't we have pupil free days ie PD in the holidays. And, it wasn't until I explained that many PDs are school-centric and if you are a contract teacher you don't get paid in the holidays (and might not even know where you will be working) then you can't access the PD


#15 MrsLexiK

Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE (***MEZ*** @ 21/01/2013, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mrslexik, there's no way of quantifying how good a teacher really is using data. Too many variables. We have different students in different classes, subjects, schools, suburbs etc. all it does is stop collaboration and collegiality. It has been abandoned overseas as useless and was an abject failure under Kennett as well.


What bringing in a HR type person? perhaps not school specific but for area or something like that?  I can tell you the teachers that didn't deserve as much as the teachers that did as a student. I would love to be a teacher, honestly I would but I understand what my conditions would be - that is not the reason I am not school studing it though.  The reason I am not at school studying it is because I don't like how you blamed and thought of if you are not in the union. So whilst I would love to do it, and I believe I would be good at it (as do some teachers and ex teachers I know) I will stay out.  

The fact that Deakin now has an enter score of 60 to get in to teaching is actually something that should be highlighted as well.  I remember the score I needed to get into teaching when I was in yr 12 and it was not 60, it was a very long way from 60. In an occupation which is dealing with spelling, maths and grammar and teaching these things I would like to think the person doing the teaching is able to understand the concepts behind it all not just know the rules.

#16 FeralBob!

Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:33 PM

QUOTE (***MEZ*** @ 21/01/2013, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mrslexik, there's no way of quantifying how good a teacher really is using data. Too many variables. We have different students in different classes, subjects, schools, suburbs etc. all it does is stop collaboration and collegiality. It has been abandoned overseas as useless and was an abject failure under Kennett as well.

Exactly. Which teacher is better, the one who gets outstanding naplan results or the one whose results are average? But what if I point out that the first teacher teaches in an upper socio economic area full of wealthy, educated  engaged parents and the second teacher has spent most of the the year teaching her refugee students English and getting them up to speed with all the education they missed in the war zone they grew up in? You're not comparing apples with apples, you're not even in the same bloody orchard!

#17 ***MEZ***

Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:39 PM

Exactly, happynewbob!

MslexiK, are you saying that students should be the ones to decide which teachers get performance pay? A lot of popular teachers are also pretty ineffective.

The deakin atar was actually 46, which is someone who would have failed HSC back in the day. Blame the federal govt for getting rid of the student cap for that one. Yes, it's a concern. Good students will not become teachers with the current pay and conditions.

#18 Illiterati

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:02 PM

Because of the way they have decided to stage their industrial action this year - depriving kids of the things they most look forward to in their school lives (eg camps), the teachers at my childrens school have lost my support.






#19 Rachaelxxx

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:14 PM

Well maybe it might not all be doom and gloom, just got this from a friend in parliament.  Not giving an opinion either way, I'm just a parent wanting a resolution for the sake of our children.

Following is a statement by Minister Hall from last Friday regarding the strike action.

Minister responsible for the Teaching Profession Peter Hall said that the
AEU had stepped over the mark when it directed its members not to write
student reports and to now ban school camps and extra-curricular activities.

“The Coalition Government will no longer tolerate actions like the planned
state-wide strike on February 14 that will cause significant disruption to
the start of the school year and to the education of Victorian government
school students,” Mr Hall said.

“Today we are urging the unions to call off their escalated industrial action which puts at risk school camps, excursions, school fetes and sporting activities. In addition, union members have indicated they won’t
be undertaking essential parts of the teaching role, such as assessment, reporting and marking.”

The Coalition Government has notified the unions that it believes some elements of their current log of claims are illegal.

“We have informed the unions that if they do not cease their threatened industrial action by January 29, it is the Coalition Government’s intention to seek an injunction from the Federal Court, under the Fair Work Act, to
prevent such actions,” Mr Hall said.

The Coalition Government has invited the unions to meet in the week commencing 28 January to resume discussion towards a resolution of this prolonged dispute.

“All teachers received a 2.75 per cent salary increase last year, putting teachers’ salaries in the range of $56,985 for a graduate teacher to
$91,883 for a leading teacher at the top of the salary scale. The AEU is denying its members further increases by now refusing to negotiate,” Mr Hall said.

“We are prepared to talk business with the union. If the AEU want more than
a 2.5 per cent salary increase for their members, then they need to talk to
us about how student learning outcomes can be improved and how teachers can
contribute to that improvement

#20 MrsLexiK

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (***MEZ*** @ 21/01/2013, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Exactly, happynewbob!

MslexiK, are you saying that students should be the ones to decide which teachers get performance pay? A lot of popular teachers are also pretty ineffective.

The deakin atar was actually 46, which is someone who would have failed HSC back in the day. Blame the federal govt for getting rid of the student cap for that one. Yes, it's a concern. Good students will not become teachers with the current pay and conditions.

I was just trying to make a point that if you are a student you normally know the ineffective teachers.  I do think that something could be implemented.

You have got to be kidding me! 46! I must have read it wrong because I was shocked when it read 60! I don't think that current pay is such an issue as long as you understand the conditions.  (Remember I am coming from someone who did infact want to be in that, and who understands it is not a 9-3 job)  

I do think it is a tough industry to actually be family friendly in (for both males and females so whilst I may have the balls to stand up to the teachers that I feel don't agree with my non union membership I don't am not at a stage in my life where working full time is what I want).  By that alot of couples I know have one parent full time and one either at home or part time and normally the part time worker works much closer to home then they used to. Teaching part time close to home in some areas is really hard, there are limited jobs in your area for a start and whilst times might be changing I don't know to many primary school teachers that are able to work part time.  Looking at myself it woul have been disruptive as a student.  Much different if you were a high school teacher though.  But primary school teaching is hard however this isn't the only industry that has family firendly issues, and I can't see how you could put flexi working hours etc into primary school teaching which would make it more appealing to students or to teachers to stay in the work force after having children.  A second yr grad student on a full time role is earning a heck of a lot, much more then 2nd time grad students in my industry and in my industry they are also working crappy hours. I do think that alot of students perhaps see that money, see what their teacher did (ie teach a class a few times a week, mark their work etc), and see the holidays, but not realise that you do have marking, you do have teacher meetins it is not the hours of the school but rather normal business hours.  In some of those holidays you will have some marking and reports to write.  To me the job includes those tasks, and I think the pay is good.  But then I can't think of one person who thinks they get paid fairly for what they do original.gif even the big development managers that I work with in billion $$ companies think they do too much work for not enough money.

#21 erypmaV

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

QUOTE (***MEZ*** @ 21/01/2013, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mrslexik, there's no way of quantifying how good a teacher really is using data.

Of course there is, it isn't simple but it should be looked at.
Doctors are able to do it, and yet the best doctors often have higher mortality rates as they take on riskier cases.  You can apply the 'different conditions' to almost any job and yet everyone else seems to manage reward excellence.

At the present time, there's no incentive to excel. It's one of the few industries where self improvement and talent are no reward. They need to work out a proper system, sure. But it can be done.

But in regards to the current strike, the teachers have a valid point. The promise wasn't for better pay based on performance, it was for better pay. I'm fed up with politicians on both sides that don't keep their promises.




#22 SaintJoe

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

QUOTE (SlowEmotionReplay @ 21/01/2013, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because of the way they have decided to stage their industrial action this year - depriving kids of the things they most look forward to in their school lives (eg camps), the teachers at my childrens school have lost my support.


Well they are not getting paid for it. Would you rather they cut back on educational teaching time instead? Something has to give.


#23 Illiterati

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

Then why did they accept an offer of employment when it was made to them and when they were aware camps and so on were part of the duties?

I will support strike days but not when they target things that mean so much to the kids.

#24 Hayleymumof3

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE
The Coalition Government has notified the unions that it believes some elements of their current log of claims are illegal.


They used this same tacit with the nurses and it didn't work.  

QUOTE
I will support strike days but not when they target things that mean so much to the kids.


Kids will get along just fine without going on school camps, what they won't get along with is a crappy education because a teacher is much to focused on performance based tests and not the actual skills they need to learn to cope in the real world.


#25 CountryFeral

Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

QUOTE (hayleymumof3 @ 21/01/2013, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kids will get along just fine without going on school camps, what they won't get along with is a crappy education because a teacher is much to focused on performance based tests and not the actual skills they need to learn to cope in the real world.


Thank you - well said!

I work in the TAFE sector and spend far more time fulfilling assessment criteria than I do lesson planning - it is such a waste of the teacher's skill.




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