Jump to content

Cesar Millan?
Who's a fan and who's not?


  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:23 PM

My brother has been spending a lot of time with us lately. He is a massive Cesar fan and keeps using his techniques on Bickie, which is really confusing her as we don't. He also keeps giving me advice although he has no pets and never has, other than our childhood dogs and fish.

So I'm curious about who here is a Cesar fan and who isn't. I don't really like the physical punishments but I can see some value in his teachings (in the really basic "person before dog" stuff that I already knew).

So anyone willing to fess up either way?

#2 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

Oh, I have nothing major against Cesar. I think a lot of "his" techniques have been around for a very long time and have a lot of merit. Edited now to say I DO have something major against him.

But I have a 4 month old Lab pup who sits, drops, stays, comes, gives, fetches, shakes, waits for her food on command (with a food reward). She is also learning to (and doing really well with) eliminate on command, walk beside me on the lead etc. For 4 months I think she is doing brilliantly although she doesn't defer to me for every single thing.

I'm not sure she needs the full "Cesar treatment" my bro is so keen on.

Edited by ~Karla~, 20 January 2013 - 02:21 PM.


#3 Miss S

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:34 PM

I would be telling your brother to back off and leave the dog alone mad.gif People like that know just enough to be dangerous.

#4 la di dah

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:34 PM

I think Cesar himself relies on a tremendous amount of exercise/interaction (which is good!) but he says "do this, and also run with your dog twelve km a day!" and a lot of people just do the growly macho alpha thing and don't do the running, and half a loaf in this case is not necessarily better than none.

The dog doesn't get all the exercise to be a good (i.e. tired! laughing2.gif) dog naturally, and the positive interaction that he does do, and they do get the relatively harsh style that can have temperment side-effects.

And I think a lot of family pets would be better if they got the exercise he gives and that's half the issue he solves.

#5 FiveAus

Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:43 PM

I like him, but you need to take his whole philosophy into account, not just cherry pick what you do and don't like, and criticise the bits you don't like. And remember he works with real core cases, some whose next step is the green dream.
Mostly I like his philosophy of interaction, discipline, affection and making the dog part of your life, not just a sometime interest.

#6 Feral*Spikey*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:42 AM

NOT a fan at all. In fact, downright disagree with some of his methods. They're bloody dangerous and have resulted in the deaths of animals. His own. mad.gif

#7 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

Thanks for the opinions. original.gif

I don't really know much about Cesar tbh. I watched a few episodes of "Dog Whisperer" years and years ago and while I agreed with some of the basics, I didn't like the physical punishments. I haven't really had anything to do with him since - haven't watched his shows or read his books but my brother has always been a huge fan. Everything is "Cesar does...." and now he keeps trying to work his magic on my puppy. I'm not sure who's getting more annoyed - me or the dog. ph34r.gif I know he means well but I'm just not convinced Cesar's way is the way I want to do things IYKWIM.

#8 Feral*Spikey*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:09 AM

Cesar's way is not in line with the code of ethics of the Australian Pet Dog Trainers association. As in, many of his methods involve physical punishment which is an outright no-no, or negative reinforcement, again, a no-no if used as the main method. Obviously, when it comes to the 'exercise your dog sufficiently' theme, well that's a no-brainer. Its hardly Cesar's way, its the bleeding obvious.

QUOTE
It is not well published, but he was sued at least once for killing a dog in his care. His "choking" method crushed a windpipe and the dog (owned by a lawyer) had to be euthanized. That's when his "don't try this at home" warnings started.
From here: BeyondCesarMillanWeekly

If I were you, I'd buy my brother "Clicker training for dummies", and suggest that he look into a proper and ethical training method instead.

Also point out that its made for TV. They only show the success stories. They don't show the ones that fail because that would be bad for ratings.

I'd be mighty (faux) cranky with my brother and tell him that if he wants to help train my dog, that he use my methods or I'll be separating him from my dog.

Positive reinforcement is what the professional animal trainers use - from zoos, to theme parks, horses, camels, livestock and pets.

If these work for the animal, there is absolutely no need whatsover to fix what isn't broken.

#9 caninestorm

Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:18 AM

Not a fan at all. I think it's a miracle he doesn't get bitten more than he does (and he still does quite often).

My dogs are trained through positive reinforcement and are wonderful (one has a number of obedience titles).

I'm not against the use of punishment entirely but it needs to be used in only the right circumstances, for the right dog, with the right handler. Unfortunately most people (including myself) are terrible with timing so don't do the dog any favours. At least when you make mistakes with rewards you are not harming the dog in any way.

#10 Feral*Spikey*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

Here's another one for you:

QUOTE
The American Humane Society actually begs the public not to train their dogs the way Cesar does, because not only is it dangerous; but it can hurt the dog.
In one episode, a crazy dog (I think it was a terrier) wouldn't calm down; so he put it on the floor and used pressed knee against its neck to stop blood flow. This caused the dog to pass out... and therefore, calming down and solving the problem.

I later heard that this impaced the dog's brain after the show ended, much to the thrill of the dog's owners.

Also... his methods have been used for years. The only reason hes so big is because he has turned it into a show. The big picture hes trying to put down? That you're the alpha. Thats it. All Cesar tries to show is that if you show you're dog who is in charge, he will listen. Sometimes this includes inhumane ways of staking your authority and even animal abuse (such as hitting a dog if he doesn't listen, punishing him for retaliating, etc.)
Possitive reinforcement works MUCH better and is in no way abusive. Eventually the dog will learn to love you as a best friend instead of an alpha, which will create a much better relationship for years to come.

People who have attempted Cesar's training methods have injured their dogs or injured themselves since some of the crazier, more aggressive dogs retaliated. I don't know if I can trust Cesar... especially since its TV. I mean, how long does it REALLY take for him to train devils into angels? Also, how do you know for sure if its the same dog? What happens to the family after he leaves?

Keep in mind that the American Humane Society, a wonderful organization, is telling people NOT to listen to this Dog Whisperer fellow. Why on earth would they tell people that if there was nothing to worry about?


Basically, anyone at all in the dog industry steers well clear of Cesar's methods. There are better alternatives, Karen Pryor, Ian Dunbar and Turid Rugaas are a couple that spring to mind.


#11 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

I've been googling all morning and I really really don't like Cesar Millan now. sad.gif I'll definitely be having a good chat with my brother about it.

That's not the only dog that was severely injured or died under Cesar's care, which I find incredibly disturbing. I actually feel sick after everything I read today. sad.gif



#12 againagain

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:35 PM

He's not really well liked in the animal industry.

I don't like his methods at all.

ETA somewhere on YouTube (if it hasn't been pulled already) is a clip of him terrorising a labrador. He then thinks he has "cracked" the poor dog, and stands there pointing and explaining to the camera how the dog has now relaxed. He goes to point and the dog lunges and bites his arm. Yeah real relaxed. Anyone who has worked with dogs could see the dog was NOT relaxed by his threatening behaviour. It's really sad actually.

Edited by againagain, 20 January 2013 - 12:39 PM.


#13 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

I just watched that clip againagain. I also watched a few others. I don't recommend watching the clip about "Shadow". He repeatedly chokes the dog and pins him down and you can actually see the dogs gums and tongue are blue. Horrible stuff.

No frigging way am I supporting this lunatic. mad.gif

#14 Feral*Spikey*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

Actually, I think our animal cruelty laws would have some application to a few of his 'methods'.

My dogs (and most of my training clients) all defer to me, and I have never needed to physically injure an animal to gain their respect (well, I'll call it respect, its a bit different from dogs, but YKWIM). Positive methods and firm commands do the job perfectly well.

#15 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

QUOTE (*Spikey* @ 20/01/2013, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, I think our animal cruelty laws would have some application to a few of his 'methods'.


Absolutely! Back in my pre-kids life, I used to be a vet nurse. I reported the last vet I worked for for similar "methods". (He became the first vet in QLD ever to be criminally charged in court with animal cruelty.) I should add that he did a lot of other really bad stuff too, not just the CM sort of stuff.

Edited by ~Karla~, 20 January 2013 - 03:39 PM.


#16 shelly1

Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

Not a fan and his shows are favourably edited to show a "great" outcome.

I feel sorry for some dogs when their owners try to "Cesar" their dogs. It's like watching a few episodes make them a dog training expert

#17 Z-girls rock

Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

I dont like him at all.
I think it is weird that he seems to blame the dog when clearly it is the owner who is the one not behaiving.
I think he is a bully to dogs.

I prefer Victoria from 'its me or the dog'. because she ends up telling the dog owner that THEY need to change because they are confusing the dog, or not walking it enough etc etc. ie: the owner realises usually that it is not that they have a 'naughty dog' but that they have been a 'naughty owner'.
which is usually the case.

#18 Jenflea

Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:37 PM

i had NO idea he was so horrible. All i know of him was by watching the odd TV show a few years ago.
What a horrible horrible man.
I actually had more words, but I think I'd be edited so much it wasn't worth typing them. I'm sure you all get my meaning anyway.


#19 Feral*Spikey*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:54 PM

Freaky, the stuff that works is all stuff that he's co-opted from others.

There is a place for some negative reinforcers when it comes to extinguishing some behaviours (like barking and pulling clothes off the line while you're not there), but it should never be the main training method. And nor should it involve pain or injury to a dog.

All the research shows positive reinforcers have greater and longer effectiveness as a training method, and more so with animals who have been abused.

I'd encourage you to explore Victoria Stillwell, Karen Pryor and others who regularly deal with difficult dogs. They're honest about their successes and failures - and they don't abuse/injure their clients.

#20 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:17 PM

Spikey, I wish we were closer because I'd so enrol in your classes with Bickie. wub.gif

#21 Feral*Spikey*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

It would be nice - Bickie sounds like a lovely young dog. I always enjoy an 'easy' client every now and then!

#22 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

She really is a sweetheart. wub.gif Possibly a bit too clever though... wink.gif

But so eager to please and so desperate to be part of the family, I couldn't imagine kicking her or any of that stuff Cesar does.

Edited by ~Karla~, 20 January 2013 - 07:47 PM.


#23 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE (Freakypet @ 20/01/2013, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For those dogs, it takes more than food treats and gentle praise and regular exercise. And I guess that's why I liked CM. Pity that he, like so many others, turned out to be tarnished as well sad.gif


One of the pieces I read in my "research" about CM today mentioned that there is a very small subset of dogs who do benefit from his sort of training. But to try and use his techniques on the average pet dog is like taking the disciplinary actions of a high security juvenile detention centre and trying to apply them in an average primary school - complete and utter overkill that will lead to far problems than it could solve. I've never trained a dog who is that aggressive, so I can't really pass judgment on that specifically. But for a random pet that has just been poorly trained, I don't think there's any need to kick, hit, choke, pin down etc a dog for not waiting for your command to walk through a door.

The clips I watched today seemed incredibly antagonistic too.  Like he was deliberately provoking the dog to get the most extreme reaction, and I can't actually blame many of the dogs for biting him - I sure as hell would if someone kicked me in the guts, whacked me across the head and choked me for doing exactly what I've been allowed to do (rightly or wrongly) for my whole life.

My brother hasn't hurt Bickie and never would, but the "getting in her space" stuff was really annoying me as it was riling her up. I just think that sort of thing sets them up to fail IYKWIM.

#24 Bedge

Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:24 PM

I've watched a few of his shows, and struggled to watch.

A inward 'pronged' check chain? 'Hanging' a dog from its check chain/collar? It was horrible watch. Even scarier, people watch this show and try to mimic these 'techniques' (read; acts of cruelty).



#25 asdf89

Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:37 PM

I've never watched any of his shows... but have heard of Cesar Millan before, and always thought that Dog Whispering would be similar to Horse Whispering (i.e. 'gentling' not breaking a horse, using natural behaviours and no violence) but from reading this post/the links it sounds like the exact opposite.

It's not 'whispering' if you have to choke a dog. How can people think that's an appropriate way to interact with your family pet?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Exclusive Black Friday Sale!

Get over 40% off selected products, including prams, baby carriers, cloth nappies, sleeping bags and much more! 24 hours only, on May 6 - register now for your special code.

Kelly Clarkson shares first photos of son

Kelly Clarkson has shown off the first photos of her son, Remington Alexander Blackstock.

5 childbirth myths that need to be busted

Birth is an unpredictable, mysterious process that intrigues us all, and there is a lot of misinformation out there.

Mum of three fatally shot by toddler while driving

A US mother has been shot by her toddler while driving on a highway in Wisconsin.

All you need is one minute to work out

The seven-minute-work out is old news. Research shows the effectiveness of going hell-for-leather for just one minute.

Pregnant women needed to join diabetes study

Pregnant woman in country Australia will help Adelaide researchers figure out why cases of type 1 diabetes have doubled over the past two decades.

Just announced: the Mountain Buggy Unirider

It's the perfect solution to combat those toddler meltdowns when they no longer want to be in a pram but can't walk long distances.

Authorities euthanise dog that fatally bit a newborn baby

A pit bull mix that fatally bit a 3-day-old infant last week has been euthanised, authorities said.

The push for Medicare to fund lactation consultants

While meeting with a lactation consultant can make an enormous difference to a new mother, it's not a service that is available through the public health system.

Why it's perfectly natural to dislike other people's children

Members of a popular forum are fiercely debating whether it is acceptable to dislike a friend's child.

Woman gives birth on plane, names baby after airline

A pregnant woman who unexpectedly gave birth on a flight has named her new baby after the airline, Jetstar.

Heartwarming photos show the joy of adoption after foster care

Children living in foster care can feel like their future is less than clear. But that uncertainty disappears the day they are adopted by their "forever family" 

'Oh my god, it's a baby!' Mum shocked to give birth

When the cramps started to kick in, Klara Dollan just assumed a painful period was starting.

Mum's Facebook plea: 'Help me find my daughter's father'

Kerryn has a unusual present planned for daughter Imi's 13th birthday celebrations - she hopes to be able to be able to give the soon-to-be the teenager her first ever photo of her dad.

Is it possible for your house to be too clean?

Our houses are cleaner than ever before. But how clean is too clean? Could a sterile home be putting your family's health at risk?

Millions of Monkeys: puzzles that grow with your toddler

Here's a puzzle that grows with them; the Puzzle Grow Pack by Millions of Monkeys.

Baby names from Britpop

If you grew up in the 90s you might want to look to the genre of Britpop music for baby name inspiration.

What to eat and drink when you have gastro

When you catch a bug that causes acute infectious gastroenteritis (gastro), your stomach and intestinal tract become inflamed, causing diarrhoea, nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramping and pain. The last thing you probably feel like doing is eating.

'To this day, I owe her my life'

Would I have survived if I hadn't crossed that street?

Why baby Sonny needs you to vaccinate your children

Caitlin is a firm believer in the importance of immunisation to protect children from harmful and deadly diseases.

Five-year-old's photo captures beauty of motherhood

There is no make-up or special outfits and hairdos, but the five-year-old boy who took this picture captured the essence of motherhood as well as any professional photographer.

Babies know whether you are naughty or nice

Studies have shown that infants in the first months of life try to avoid dealing with social wrongdoers - for example, sharing less with them and helping them less - and they expect others to, too.

 
Advertisement
 

Top 5 Articles

Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

The babies who are one in 70 million

Bethani Webb was excited to find out she was pregnant, but the first time mum did not realise she was carrying four babies not one.

Exclusive Black Friday Sale!

Get over 40% off selected products, including prams, baby carriers, cloth nappies, sleeping bags and much more! 24 hours only, on May 6 - register now for your special code.

Cafe offers breastfeeding mums a free cup of tea

A Sydney cafe is offering breastfeeding mums free cups of tea in a bid to show support for the right of women to nurse their babies wherever they choose.

To snip or not to snip? When the decision is not clear cut

Jamie Oliver, who considered a vasectomy, is to be a father again. A fellow dad reflects on his own decision 11 years ago

Doctors stunned by rare twins born almost six weeks apart

To everyone's surprise, Kristen Miller "kept doing better each day", keeping her second baby safe.

Baby book ideas for modern parents

Before my son was born I was given a lovely baby book full of blank pages waiting to be filled with weights and heights and first words.

The adorable smile of a baby seeing his mum clearly for the first time

There is no doubt seeing their child smile for the first time is an unforgettable moment for parents everywhere.

Mum tells how toddler 'nearly hung himself' in cot mishap

When Alison Johnson put her 18-month-old Caleb down for a nap, she had no reason to believe her son was in any danger.

Babies are still switched at birth? Yes, it can happen

All my panic and tears aside, my biggest question looking back is about the kind of security measures used in the maternity ward.

Doctors slammed for taking selfie with newborn

Everyone who visits a mum in hospital in the days following childbirth wants to get a photo with the new baby.

ergoPouch Twosie Sleepsuit for winter breastfeeding

Finally, there's a way to keep warm while breastfeeding through winter.

Health check: How long does sex 'normally' last?

What to do with this information? My advice would be to try not to think about it during the throes of passion.

When breastfeeding sucks: fixing common problems

From niplash to tight boobs, biting to milk supply issues, Pinky McKay looks at common breastfeeding issues and how to solve them.

10 things I've learnt in my first six months with twins

Six months on we're all still alive, and the more we get to know each other the easier the days become.

Mum's loving kiss leaves baby fighting for life

Kirsty Carrington thought nothing of giving her newborn son a kiss, little did she know it would leave the baby fighting for life.

When doing chores is your new 'me time'

After children, 'me time' looks a little different.

Get going: 14 travel strollers for families on the move

A stroller can make or break travelling with a baby or toddler. Here are 15 great single travel stroller options.

10 ways toddlers are terrific

It always pays to remind yourself of how terrific toddlers can be - they're little like this for such a short time

 

ENTER NOW

Do your kids love bananas?

This is the comp for you! We have $800 worth of Myer gift cards and boxes of Australian Bananas to be won. Entry is simple: just post a pic of your little one enjoying a banana in the comments of the FB post to enter.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.