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More on why we should vaccinate...


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#1 FeralEsme

Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:46 AM

Wow for these parents. Once again, it's a shame it took such an event to make them realise they had been hugely misinformed, but good on them for pushing the issue now. Terrific that the little boy is doing well  too. This is why you should not listen to organisations such as the AVN or any other person on the Internet or in real life who makes dubious claims about vaccination. Vaccinations work, they save lives, they stop your children from suffering!

Tetanus

#2 4kidlets

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:01 AM

There has been a thread on this already - cant find it now but did run for quite a few pages.

#3 FeralEsme

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:17 AM

Yes I know, I started the thread (unless there was another one) I'm just adding this one because I think it's worth another look.

Edited by Jemstar, 19 January 2013 - 10:17 AM.


#4 Boombox

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:29 AM

QUOTE
"Parents like us make the decision to not vaccinate on very little factual information about the actual consequences of the diseases - massive pain, disability and death - and a lot of non-factual, emotive information from the internet stating inflated figures on the frequency and severity of adverse reactions and conspiracy theories about 'evil' doctors, governments and drug companies."


What a very refreshing and brave thing for this parent to say- I'm very impressed with them, and pleased their child is well.

#5 4kidlets

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:34 AM

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 19/01/2013, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes I know, I started the thread (unless there was another one) I'm just adding this one because I think it's worth another look.



oh, fair enough, I didnt realise you were OP of the other thread and thought maybe you didnt know we had discussed this before original.gif



Glad child is recovering well - but ,yes, very hard way for parents to learn the error of their ways.

#6 **Xena**

Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:39 AM

A very hard lesson to learn- especially when it is someone you love that pays for your mistake. I'm so glad the little one is recovering well.

I admire the parents though for admitting their ignorance and for trying to educate others now. It would be so hard.

#7 purplekitty

Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

I'm really pleased that he has come through this and is on the mend.
What a terrible experience for the whole family.

NZ have their own version of the AVN.Not pretty.


#8 rbat

Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

My son had a huge reaction to the tetanus part of his injection at 4yo. Severe adverse reactions are not fallacy. And parents do have the right to question their safety.

#9 knottygirl

Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

my grandma had tetnus as a child.  she said it was awful and she was in hospital for ages with it.

#10 Feralishous

Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

sad that it took such a serious event to change their opinions. Its hard when you think you're doing the right thing for your child, and it turns out bad.

#11 purplekitty

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (rbat @ 19/01/2013, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My son had a huge reaction to the tetanus part of his injection at 4yo. Severe adverse reactions are not fallacy. And parents do have the right to question their safety.
No-one says there are not some reactions to vaccination only that the risk ,in the general population,is far less than catching the disease.

Tetanus is one vaccination where if you choose not to have it you do not effect the rest of the community.Your personal decision is just that.

#12 Boombox

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

QUOTE (rbat @ 19/01/2013, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My son had a huge reaction to the tetanus part of his injection at 4yo. Severe adverse reactions are not fallacy. And parents do have the right to question their safety.


I'm sorry that happened to your son. It must be a big worry to you that he wont be able to get immunity to tetanus. As an aside, how did you know it was the tetanus part of the injection?

I don't think anyone is saying adverse reactions are fallacy- quite the opposite. The important point is serious adverse reactions are very rare, and the disease itself is often more common, and much more severe.

#13 tenar

Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

QUOTE (rbat @ 19/01/2013, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My son had a huge reaction to the tetanus part of his injection at 4yo. Severe adverse reactions are not fallacy. And parents do have the right to question their safety.


Sorry to learn your son had a bad reaction sad.gif  I don't think that anyone here has said that severe reactions are fallacy.  Most pro-vaccination people are sensible enough to realise that they can occur.

However the chances of having a severe reaction are a lot lower (orders of magnitude lower) than the chances of getting the disease if you are unvaccinated.  Which is why, barring medical reasons not to, most parents very sensibly choose to vaccinate their children.

Everyone has the right to question the safety of vaccinations.  The people who do this the most are, of course, the researchers developing the things.  They are the ones with the tools and knowledge to find the answers, of course.  The rest of us who aren't vaccine researchers just have to trust to their expertise.

#14 rbat

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:15 PM

purplekitty, most people would get their child vaccinated with the multiple boosters so technically not many would "choose" not to have the tetanus component. I am not anti-vaccination but there are two sides to this and I no longer see it as a black/white issue.

thecleanowl, my son is immunised - hence the reaction. The nurse and GP both suspected tetanus as children are most likely to have a reaction to this at 4yo. This is because they have received multiple doses in a short time by this age. The health department who I had a lot of contact with also confirmed this. His reaction in severity was rare, under 4%. Any further immunisations of any kind are recommended to be done under specialist care. Hence why I no longer flatly believe vaccinations are safe.

tenar, I agree with what you are saying. I am not saying don't vaccinate your children - I am saying that there are also risks and they can be very severe. I don't think the risks are outlined enough and from my experience, finding adequate information about adverse reaction is almost impossible (I am not including the anti-vaccination groups). I also can understand now why people are choosing not to vaccinate whereas I didn't really understand it before.

#15 liveworkplay

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

rbat, I respectively disagree that people are not told about the risks of vaccines. I have always been given a list of extensive possible side effects every time one of my three have had a vaccination. Whilst I am sorry that you had to go through having a child with a severe reaction, kids can have a reaction to anything: foods, topical creams, insect bites etc etc. It does not make these things inherently unsafe in themselves.

#16 beastie

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE
Tenar, I agree with what you are saying. I am not saying don't vaccinate your children - I am saying that there are also risks and they can be very severe. I don't think the risks are outlined enough and from my experience, finding adequate information about adverse reaction is almost impossible (I am not including the anti-vaccination groups). I also can understand now why people are choosing not to vaccinate whereas I didn't really understand it before.


What a refreshing post. What I find frustrating is that I really want to vaccinate against whopping cough, yet to do so my child must receive other vaccinations.  My doctor wrote a script for the DTP vaccination but it is not available for infants.  

I have seen adverse reactions to vaccinations and I am another who thinks the issue is not black or white.

Edited by beastie, 19 January 2013 - 02:48 PM.


#17 purplekitty

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

QUOTE (rbat @ 19/01/2013, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
purplekitty, most people would get their child vaccinated with the multiple boosters so technically not many would "choose" not to have the tetanus component. I am not anti-vaccination but there are two sides to this and I no longer see it as a black/white issue.
I'm not disagreeing with you that some parents have medically indicated reasons for not vaccinating but the truth is it is not common.  
Particularly for children such as yours it's important that those who can do vaccinate.



#18 Feral Grey Mare

Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

I once worked with a guy who had contracted polio as a child in the late 1960s. His parents were opposed to vaccinations for their children but routinely vaccinated their animals!

#19 Maple Leaf

Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

QUOTE (Old Grey Mare @ 19/01/2013, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I once worked with a guy who had contracted polio as a child in the late 1960s. His parents were opposed to vaccinations for their children but routinely vaccinated their animals!



Our neighbour is like that. The kids aren't vaccinated but the dogs certainly are.



#20 Sif

Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE
rbat, I respectively disagree that people are not told about the risks of vaccines. I have always been given a list of extensive possible side effects every time one of my three have had a vaccination.


The risks are always down played. The risks of not getting them are always exaggerated (and I have personally heard a LOT of complete rubbish regarding the risks of not vaccinating, e.g. 'If your child get's measles, they WILL die!' and 'Now that your child has been exposed to Chicken Pox, he will get shingles, if you had vaccinated him before he got exposed he would not get shingles.' So, the risks of making either choice are not handled fairly.

Many, many EBers (as a representation of fairly education Australians) have stated categorically that they know vaccines are safe. The specialist and the creators of the vaccines don't know this, but I have had several GPs tell me vaccine are safe (not 'safe for most people' but SAFE as in, 'Why are you even questioning this, you idiot?').

Vaccines are not 'safe', there are range of risks for everyone, including not being effective in a significant percentage of the population but people never verifying their efficacy, and living as if they are 'covered' anyway.

I have four children. The older two were vaccinated as per the schedule to the ages of 3.5 and 6 months. Both had adverse hyper-immune reactions. My eldest looks to be affected for life, my second seems to have recovered at the age of 11. My younger two were not vaccinated and have had no hyper-immune reactions.

No one told me my child might suffer life long adverse reactions from the vaccines - you know why? Because they didn't know, because there is so much they DON'T know about how all the various chemicals and modified biology interactions in the millions of variables of the human body over a period of time. I was lucky to have a paediatric immunologist who questioned the impact of so many chemicals on an underdeveloped immune system. He said, 'Just hold off immunising them...'

The reason babies and children are immunisaed so young is because vaccinations aren't nearly as effective on older children and adults - the uptake rate for tween, teens and adults is much lower than it is on an underdeveloped immune system.

Immuno suppress people cannot have vaccines, but infants aren't born with a fully developed immune system either - it only reaches full development around age five (which is also when vaccines stop being as effective).

I'm not an expert but these aren't difficult questions either. The truth is, GPs don't know any more about vaccines than the rest of the population, they tell parents what they read in pamphlets or hear at conferences. Unless it is a particular area of interest for them, they don't read all the research that comes out. And it has been in their interest (for some to keep clinics up and running) to receive whatever the latest Government bonus is for a high immunisation rate at their clinic.

Many don't tell you the risks until they think you're resisting the push to vaccinate because they don't want deter people from vaccinating.

#21 purplekitty

Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

Name me a few things in life that are 100% safe?
Most of the things you do, put into your body or do to your body are not 100% safe.

I'm not even bothering to answer the rest of your post because you haven't shown the integrity in the past to respond to people who take the time to correct some of your assertions or ask you to clarify what you are saying.

#22 4kidlets

Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

Sif, as someone who does a lot of vaccinating, parents are always given the opportunity to read information folder first and risks are quantified - ie risks from contracting measles are x % of encephalitis, x % of death.
Also risk of vaccines - eg y % of x rare complication.

It is in objective number percentages not subjective vague Your child will die statements.

then parents can weigh relative risk of disease vs relative risks of the vaccine.

QUOTE
I was lucky to have a paediatric immunologist who questioned the impact of so many chemicals on an underdeveloped immune system. He said, 'Just hold off immunising them...'


Please could you let us know the name of this paediatric immunoligist -  I find it very hard to accept one said this - but if you can provide evidence of same, I will eat my hat.


QUOTE
The reason babies and children are immunisaed so young is because vaccinations aren't nearly as effective on older children and adults - the uptake rate for tween, teens and adults is much lower than it is on an underdeveloped immune system.

Yes, this is sometimes true - the age for various vaccines does take into account the efficacy at that age compared to other ages.

It is also that we want the children to have coverage as soon as possible, in particular for whooping cough.

#23 Kickingitcountry

Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

I'm pregnant with my 1 st and I'm a pro vac. I have a friend who dosnt vaccinate her kids. She wants to come visit soon after the baby is born and got very upset when I declined she got very up set and called me all sorts of names ect

I was shocked she knows I'm pro vac and got upset that I felt that until my child was at least partially vaccinated I didn't want her non vaccinated children around my vulnerable new born baby why I know that my child will encounter non vaccinated people throught their lives but I just couldn't bring myself to knowingly put my new born into that situation.

I'm sorry to high jack the thread but did I over react?

#24 kadoodle

Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

Kickingitcountry - I don't think you did at all.  If these kids are in the incubation period of - for example - chicken pox, they could pass it on to your newborn and make them very sick.

Sif - Which vaccine did your kids over-react to?  My sisters and my older children had adverse reactions to the "Triple Antigen" which has now been superceded.

#25 **Xena**

Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

QUOTE (liveworkplay @ 19/01/2013, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
rbat, I respectively disagree that people are not told about the risks of vaccines. I have always been given a list of extensive possible side effects every time one of my three have had a vaccination.


Same, I was given a printout to read whilst waiting that outlined both the risks of vaccinations and the risks of the diseases.

My ex had polio. He almost died and as it is lives with scars and a twisted leg. If you can prevent that disease then you should try your darndest. Obviously sometimes kids are allergic but that makes it even more important for everyone else to step up.

Edited by **Xena**, 19 January 2013 - 10:43 PM.





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