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TT Stopping DS2 Going To School


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#1 Mrs_Mystery_Guest

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

Hi,

I need a bit of advice in regards to my DS2 TT problem. DS2 will be 4 in June and he is able to start pre school in a couple of weeks but there is one problem. He will not no matter what do a pooh in the toilet. I started TT him just after his 3rd birthday. He has had wees under control for months now but poohs are a no go.

I was hoping he would've gotten over is holding him back by the time school started up again but no it hasn't. DS2 has speech issues which I don't think impact on his TT and is being seen by a ped for other issues but I have just recently changed over to a new ped as the old one was not being very helpful at all and that's putting it nicely. DS2 does not see the new ped till the middle of feb.

DS2 can count up to 9 and knows most colours even though he can't say them all as he has the speech problem. His day care kept telling me he should go to school and he would not benefit from being there any more even though of course he can stay. They kept saying it as all his *friends* from his room will be in preschool and not him.

Because of his speech issues and other undiagnosed issues sticker charts and all that do not work. I'm not saying his stupid...but they just don't work if you can understand?

Basically I'm just looking for tips on how I can help him without freaking him out do a pooh in the toilet. DS1 has SN probs as well but he was fully TT by 3 and a half. I'm pretty anxious and a couple of friends think I should just keep him out till the half year mark and see how he is.

Thanks.

#2 Expelliarmus

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

He can start pre school even he's not fully TT, surely?

#3 ~~K~~

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

I guess it depends on his level of control.  My son won't poo except in an absolute emergency on any toilet except our own. However, this isn't a problem because he has the control to not have an accident at Family Day Care (he just rushes straight to the loo when he gets home!).

If he can hold it for the however many hours he will be at preschool, it may not impact him at all.  Maybe just get him to go before he leaves, and be aware he might be busting when he gets home.


Edited by ~~K~~, 14 January 2013 - 03:15 PM.


#4 Kreme

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

What happens when he needs to do a poo? Does he let you know/request a nappy or does he just go in his undies?

Is he fairly consistent in the timing of his poos?

My DD was TT at 3 for wee but wouldn't poo on the toilet. She started preschool at 3.5 despite still not using the toilet for poo. But she only ever did a poo at night after her bath and would ask for the nappy to do it in.

I alerted preschool to the issue and send a pull up in her bag just in case but she never needed it. About a month or so later she finally got over the fear and all was fine. I don't think she ever did a poo at preschool though - she prefers our toilet  original.gif

#5 Mrs_Mystery_Guest

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

I stopped putting nappies on him the day I started TT him. lol He never wets the bed at night, well never has. He just poohs straight in to his undies. Most of the time he freaks out at other times he might just do it and come up whispering to me about having done a pooh in his pants. I think he whispers because he thinks he is in trouble.

Nope doesn't ask for anything to do a pooh in to just does it in his pants. I just take him to the toilet and empty the pooh in to the toilet and tell him poohs are done in the toilet and say it a few times but it never sinks in. Nope no regular pooh time I'm afraid. Very random with his poohs. lol.

The principal told me that unless he is fully TT he can't start in a couple of weeks. The only way he can go is if I stay in the class room every day all day while he is there basically as his personal toilet aide..lady...till he is fully TT and then I can go home and stay there...He said we are a school not a daycare. I live in a very small town and this is the only preschool in town.

Edited by ~Lady_Muck~, 14 January 2013 - 03:28 PM.


#6 Expelliarmus

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:29 PM

That's unusual. I have always found that pre schools and schools are quite accommodating of toileting. Is it 3yo preschool and a private preschool? I would have assumed that he could not be excluded at 4yo or in a government setting.

#7 Mrs_Mystery_Guest

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:30 PM

Nope just a regular normal public school. No private schools around here. He said he will benefit from going to school and I said I know this.



#8 IsolaBella

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:32 PM

How many days a week. DS2 had 1 day preschool at 3yrs turning 4. Also speech delayed and refused to poo in toilet. Took until May for him to poo in toilet. Luckily he only had one poo accident at Kinder in that time and they were happy to deal with it.



#9 Peppery

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:34 PM

My DD is exactly the same, just goes straight in her undies. I am sorry that the school is not understanding. DD has pooed in her undies on more than one occasion at preschool but her teachers are absolutely fine with cleaning her up.

Can you start mid term possibly after seeing the paed? The paed might have things you can attempt to overcome the problem?

#10 Expelliarmus

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

If it's public school and he is 4yo, I would challenge it. He's entitled to be there. Which state is it?

#11 Mrs_Mystery_Guest

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

3 days a week, 8:30- after lunch don't have a def time. :/ Maybe he is just still to young as he won't be 4 till the 4th of June?

Edited by ~Lady_Muck~, 14 January 2013 - 03:39 PM.


#12 MrsLexiK

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

QUOTE (howdo @ 14/01/2013, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He can start pre school even he's not fully TT, surely?


I know my friend had to have her child fully TT before starting preschool/kinder.

Like the PP's are asking what does he do, poo in his undies everytime at least once a day?  If he is only doing it at night I would be inclinded to say to the school/orgainsation who ever is running the preschool that he was fully TT.  However if he is pooing his pants every day then I do not think that I would send him just yet, and hopefully there will be some wonderful advice in this thread for you original.gif

#13 Expelliarmus

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

All I know is that in SA the school cannot have that expectation and that the child is entitled to attend school.

If he's not 4 until June he may be outside the cut off however. Not sure what the cut off is in your state.

#14 Mrs_Mystery_Guest

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (MrsLexiK @ 14/01/2013, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know my friend had to have her child fully TT before starting preschool/kinder.

Like the PP's are asking what does he do, poo in his undies everytime at least once a day?  If he is only doing it at night I would be inclinded to say to the school/orgainsation who ever is running the preschool that he was fully TT.  However if he is pooing his pants every day then I do not think that I would send him just yet, and hopefully there will be some wonderful advice in this thread for you original.gif


He usually does a massive pooh every couple of days and in between nuggets but most days there is pooh. He has had a problem with eating since he was 2. It's hard to explain, he basically has just gone from eating normally to refusing all meats, anything we cook, all fruit etc to sandwiches, yoghurt, maybe bananas and other bits and pieces that take his fancy on a day to day basis. The ped thinks it might go hand in hand with other behaviours he is exhibiting. So basically I'm saying his diet is crap and he poohs are constantly solid. He is definitely not constipated but none the less his poohs are like bullets. I don't think they cause any pain when they come out either.



#15 Mrs Dinosaurus

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

Mine has no speech issues, will turn 4 in June and has only just started using the toilet. For him it was about control though (over me, not his bladder) so we just ignored it, took all TTP paraphernalia away and shrugged "it doesn't matter" whenever anyone asked.

Although he is in preschool and they will change his nappy.

No other advice sorry, everyone told me you can't force it and in the end that was true fior us.

All the best.

#16 Holidayromp

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

He is due to start school at a public school.  He has to be TT. I can see it from the school's point of view they are there to teach not clean up after a non tt child.  It is not their job.  They are not daycare or even a preschool attached to daycare.
Also think about the repurcussions on your son - how would he feel about being at big school still pooing in his pants.  That will stick with him all throughout school long after he has been TT.
Hold him back another year and send him to school when he is full tt - he is clearly not ready to start and being TT is a big part of it.
I cannot believe the other posters thinking that it is not a big deal - it is a big deal.  Why should the teacher have to deal with dirty knickers/nappies/pullups - it is not their job.
He is not entitled to be there because he is not TT pure and simple.

#17 MrsLexiK

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

QUOTE (~Lady_Muck~ @ 14/01/2013, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He usually does a massive pooh every couple of days and in between nuggets but most days there is pooh. He has had a problem with eating since he was 2. It's hard to explain, he basically has just gone from eating normally to refusing all meats, anything we cook, all fruit etc to sandwiches, yoghurt, maybe bananas and other bits and pieces that take his fancy on a day to day basis. The ped thinks it might go hand in hand with other behaviours he is exhibiting. So basically I'm saying his diet is crap and he poohs are constantly solid. He is definitely not constipated but none the less his poohs are like bullets. I don't think they cause any pain when they come out either.


sad.gif your poor DS and you as well.  The reason I would hold him back for unless the problem was sorted is because kids are bloody cruel! too cruel infact and if he is pooing in his pants everyday I think there is no doubt he will be teased and if this is the only school in the area he will go through that teasing for a few years to come.  If he was older I may have say something else, but if you have time up your sleeve and can hold off to see if you can get him fully TT I would try that.

#18 Holidayromp

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE (howdo @ 14/01/2013, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He can start pre school even he's not fully TT, surely?


It is the first year of school - Kindergarten or preschool in some states.  

My DD started kindergarten last year and if she wasn't TT there would be no way in hell she would be going if she wasn't tt!!

Another year would make a heck of alot of difference.

#19 Expelliarmus

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

Actually, you will find that public schools cannot refuse to educate a child due to special needs. All children are entitled to education at their local school.

However as this is pre school and the law about starting school means that this child, with a June birthday can attend FYOS in 2015 then it would probably be best to send him to preschool at the start of 2014.

QUOTE (Holidayromp @ 14/01/2013, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is the first year of school - Kindergarten or preschool in some states.  

My DD started kindergarten last year and if she wasn't TT there would be no way in hell she would be going if she wasn't tt!!

Another year would make a heck of alot of difference.

I know it's preschool. The OP mentioned the principal so I wondered if it was a stand alone pre school or attached to a school blah blah blah.

I have been trying to get more information about the age of the child and where she is trying to send him but at the end of the day, even if some people would not send a non poo trained child to preschool, at the end of the day they are entitled to go if they are the appropriate age.

The OP's child isn't 4 until June and therefore I would send him to preschool in 2014, not this year and I presume the preschool can refuse attendance because he's after the cut off in most states.

Edited by howdo, 14 January 2013 - 04:07 PM.


#20 Holidayromp

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

QUOTE (Madame Catty @ 14/01/2013, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Our school said they had to be toilet trained but ds was like yours OP, and they were happy to take him mostly trained.  By toilet trained, they mean out of nappies or pull ups.  They expect some accidents.  Even fully trained kids have accidents.  I thought ds would be the only one but I noticed quite a few kids were having accidents.


I agree but the OPs DS will not even do any poo in the toilet so that is certainly a long way from being mostly trained.  I understand young kids when excited or not wanting to miss out holding on and having accidents.  But that is vastly different from a youngster that has never been to the toilet to do poo.

I am worried about the stigma.  It is better holding him off for another year rather than to suffer through the years due to teasing.

#21 Megs25

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

I think you're rushing him a bit. He's really only 3.5 years old. My son will be 4 in May and in the same situation. He has a lot of medical issues involving his bowel. We're only sending hom to 3 year old kinder this year, and probably looking at 2 years of 4 year old kinder before school.

I really don't think he's ready for school. There is a lot more to school readiness then being about to count to 10 etc. He needs to have social skills and maturity too. He's obviously not there yet. Please hold him back.

I think you'll also find by what you described your son IS constipated. This needs to be looked into. It's not always easy to get to the bottom of it. Currently my son takes two lots of laxatives a day and has an enema every 3 days.

If you send him now, you're setting him up for failure.

#22 BeakyHoneyButt

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

I'm still confused about whether it's school or pre-school. I know in NSW they call fyos kindergarten,and in VIC it is prep. pre school in NSW is kinder in Vic and not 'school'???? Anyway if it's prep or kindergarten (which is what i classify as 'school' you can't send them til they are 4 anywhere is aus right?
However, as a primary teacher myself, we are not required to clean children's bottoms, the only time I had a student do a poo was as a student teacher, and child was sent to the sick bay and the child's mother was called. I can't comment on what the rules are at pre-school or in different states.
Kids are very switched on even at 4-5, and may not be very kind about the smell etc. Socially I don't think it's a great idea to start him off until he is TT. He is still so young.

#23 mitty82

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:34 PM

Unfortunately this sometimes happens when TT is left late in their toddler years. They can not go to kindy nor preschool depends on what state you are in until fully TT. IF he does pooh his undies you would be called to come and clean him up as they wont do it.

#24 roses99

Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

QUOTE (howdo @ 14/01/2013, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He can start pre school even he's not fully TT, surely?



QUOTE (howdo @ 14/01/2013, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's unusual. I have always found that pre schools and schools are quite accommodating of toileting. Is it 3yo preschool and a private preschool? I would have assumed that he could not be excluded at 4yo or in a government setting.

I know someone whose child was still having frequent poo accidents in second year of school. She was entitled to go (state school), but her mother was called to the school each and every time to change her. That was the deal.

OP, is this preschool year the year before formal school? In which case, your DS would be due to start full time school at age 4.5? In that case I would absolutely hold him back. So much better to hold back than have to pull him out part way or repeat.

I'd use this next year as an opportunity to sort out the TT as well as get to the bottom of other undiagnised problems. That means he'll be so much better prepared and more confident when he does start FYOS. I really do see this as a useful opportunity to delay FYOS rather than an issue of whether or not he can/should attend pre-school in two weeks.

#25 Ritaroo

Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

I didn't gather that the op was just talking about accidents, which happens all the time in my classroom and you deal with it, but I had gathered that the OP has said outright to the school that ds is not tt. That is a bit different. In Qld, my understanding is that there's no official document that says that we will not take children who are not tt but the union's stance is that teachers don't do it. It is not only takes a lot of time, it is a bit of a legal mine field in a main stream classroom. Would it hurt to keep him home a bit longer?




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