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Playgroup with non-vaccinated children. Advice please?!


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#1 FurryTongue

Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:30 PM

Not quite sure were to post this and hope it won't offend anyone.
There is a group of women where I live who practice a style of parenting similiar to mine and I have joined their facebook page. They have a weekly playgroup and often catch up at other times of the week. I am yet to go to any of their playgroups/dates.
The other day I noticed on their facebook page several of the mothers commenting their children weren't vaccinated. My children are vaccinated and they are 18 mths and 3.5 yrs old. I am pretty uneducated in this department and wondered if I would be putting my kids at risk by regularly having my children interact with non-vaccinated children?
I am not looking for a debate about vaccination or to offend anyone.  I just would like to be better educated about the risk of regular interaction with non-vaccinated children, given the ages of my children.

#2 SeaPrincess

Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

Your children will come into contact with unvaccinated children. They may even contract a disease for which they have been vaccinated (one of my vaccinated children got chicken pox in kindy, the other vaccinated child didn't catch it, the unvaccinated baby did).

Unvaccinated children wouldn't put me off, but with my feelings on vaccination, the mothers probably wouldn't want me there for long - I have a tendency to shut down vaccination conversations when I mention that my brother died from what is now a vaccine-preventable disease.

#3 ubermum

Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

Given your children's ages, and my assumption that they have been vaccinated according to the schedule, they should be pretty safe. If they do come into contact with a vaccine preventable illness, so long as they have seroconverted in response to their vaccinations (developed antibodies), at worst they may get a mild version of the illness. Some people do not seroconvert to some immunisations and are always at risk of contracting them. Only a blood test can tell this. However, your children will encounter people who have not been immunised, or whose immunity has waned in everyday life anyway.

My problem would be associating with whack job parents who have "done their research" and are not immunising because of whatever conspiracy theory they believe.

#4 ekbaby

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

If your children have been vaccinated then their risk of contracting those diseases is low (not 0%, but most vaccines are at least 80% effective)

IME most parents who choose not to vaccinate are pretty cautious about spreading transmissible diseases, more so than a lot of vaxxing parents I know - eg excluding themselves from things when their kid has a cough, observing quarantine periods for things like Whooping Cough. Whereas many ppl assume "oh my kids been vaccinated, they couldn't possibly have WC" and then  pass it on (most cases are passed on by vaxxed kids)

This is not to start a debate about effectiveness of vaxxing (personally I do vax). IMO it is good for all playgroups /parents groups to have a bit of a discussion about "ground rules" for illness and attendance - ie how long to stay away after gastro

In my limited experience, my non-vaxxing friends have been much more cautious in that respect

#5 FurryTongue

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

To be honest I am also concerned about having a difference of a opinion. The reason I am uneducated about the riskswith interacting regularly with the same group of unvaccinated kids  is because for me it was a no brainer to have my children vaccinated. I would never take that risk.
In many ways I am alternative with my parenting style and I do believe each to their own and do what works for you....but I don't agree with non-vaccination. I have no problem discussing it but as there was several (about five) mothers who chose not to vaccinate their kids I would be very uncomfortable to argue/defend why I vaccinated my children.
I would like to have friends who share my parenting style but the non-vaccination has made me stop and be a little cautious.

#6 soontobegran

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:13 PM

Your vaccinated children would be at little risk however I would be going nowhere near there with a new born or if I had a child or close family member who had compromised immunity, just like PP I think I would have trouble relating with the anti vaxxing mums and they with me. I am pretty opinionated when it comes to vaccinations just as most anti vaxxers are too, I see it as a recipe for disaster even though I know it is just one facet of these people's parenting choices.
I wouldn't dislike the people, but I dislike the choices and the frustration I felt would probably be obvious which is unfair to the dynamics of the group.

#7 naturalgoodness

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

In the playgroups and similar that I have been to, vaccination is not a topic regularly discussed so I would not have known who was and who wasn't vaccinated. There was never a conversation where anyone had to defend their position.

To be honest, I have had bigger issues than vaccination with some parenting choices made by other parents and it doesn't/hasn't stopped me attending these types of things.

I would suggest you go and see how you feel about it. I have felt the same way (being the non-vaccinator) when potentially entering a situation full of vaccinators and have not had an issue original.gif

#8 purplekitty

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:44 PM

I agree with what STBG has said about the particular circumstances where I would be concerned.
QUOTE (naturalgoodness @ 12/01/2013, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In the playgroups and similar that I have been to, vaccination is not a topic regularly discussed so I would not have known who was and who wasn't vaccinated. There was never a conversation where anyone had to defend their position.
My Bold
Have you told them you don't vaccinate particularly if there are newborns , pregnant women or other health conditions?
I would think that might generate at least some discussion about ground rules and expectations in the group,vaccinated or not.

#9 Mumma Mash

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

I don't get it. Kids who are vaccinated are the ones carrying the disease... Not the other way around.
I think you need to get educated in both vaccinated and non vaccinated to settle you're nerves.

#10 purplekitty

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE (Mumma Mash @ 12/01/2013, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get it. Kids who are vaccinated are the ones carrying the disease... Not the other way around.
I think you need to get educated in both vaccinated and non vaccinated to settle you're nerves.
Please explain what you mean.


#11 Expelliarmus

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

QUOTE (Mumma Mash @ 12/01/2013, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get it. Kids who are vaccinated are the ones carrying the disease... Not the other way around.
I think you need to get educated in both vaccinated and non vaccinated to settle you're nerves.

Huh?

Since when are vaccinated kids carrying a disease?

#12 Domestic Goddess

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

Your children will be reasonably safe. You could tell the mums that you respect their opinion about non vaxxing, but if they could give you a heads up if their child is coming down with something.
I would assume that most parents would have this common sense anyway. If DS is sick, I keep him away from other kids. Vaccinated or not.

Like PP, I go to several different playgroups and vaccination has never been a point of discussion. If they do bring it up, than again, just tell them that you respect their decision and hope they respect yours and that you do not want to enter a debate/discussion about such a socially "sensitive" issue.

#13 Domestic Goddess

Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE (Mumma Mash @ 12/01/2013, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get it. Kids who are vaccinated are the ones carrying the disease... Not the other way around.
I think you need to get educated in both vaccinated and non vaccinated to settle you're nerves.


On the contrary, maybe you yourself could read up on some more vaccination literature? Preferably without using Google.

They do not carry the disease. They get injected with a very weakened version of the viruses. Your immune system recognizes the intruders and starts developing antibodies against it and kills it.
As you now are the proud owner of these new antibodies, you are 95%-98%  protected if the intruders knocks on your door again in the future.

P.S. This is a very very simple explanation of how vaccines work. It is ofcourse "slightly" more complicated, but I hope this way you can grasp the information better and start realizing that vaccinated children do not carry the disease original.gif

Edited by Domestic Goddess, 12 January 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#14 FurryTongue

Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE (naturalgoodness @ 12/01/2013, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In the playgroups and similar that I have been to, vaccination is not a topic regularly discussed so I would not have known who was and who wasn't vaccinated. There was never a conversation where anyone had to defend their position.
I am in a playgroup and have been for several years. This was one of the first BIG conversations we had as mothers so I guess everyone knew who was/not vaccinated (all the kids are).

To be honest, I have had bigger issues than vaccination with some parenting choices made by other parents and it doesn't/hasn't stopped me attending these types of things.
Good point.

I would suggest you go and see how you feel about it. I have felt the same way (being the non-vaccinator) when potentially entering a situation full of vaccinators and have not had an issue original.gif

Again good point and valuable advice.


QUOTE (Mumma Mash @ 12/01/2013, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get it. Kids who are vaccinated are the ones carrying the disease... Not the other way around.
I think you need to get educated in both vaccinated and non vaccinated to settle you're nerves.

Perhaps you could educate me and settle my nerves? ohmy.gif

Thankyou Domestic Goddess for you advice. I really appreciate it and value your feedback.

#15 Cranky Kitten

Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

I go to a similar playgroup, as well as being quite active in babywearing groups that have a fair number of non-vaxxing parents. We agree to disagree, and make a point not to preach at each other over it. I am careful about making sure DS and I stay away if we're sick, as are the vast majority of mums who attend.

It's never really been an issue for us - their kids don't carry the disease just because they haven't been vaxxed. Neither does mine because he has.

#16 Eirinn

Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:39 PM

If your kids are vaccinated, I don't really see the issue. There are plenty of adults walking around whose immunity has waned over the years too, who probably pose more of a 'danger'.

I associate with a lot of 'attachment' type parents, with whom I am likeminded to varying degrees on such topics as homebirthing, breastfeeding, babywearing, baby led weaning, etc. We all have different levels of engagement in these practises. I myself do not use cloth nappies, and my kids are fully vaccinated. No one holds this against me, nor do I judge the women in the group who do things differently from myself. I think if you join this playgroup with the right attitude, you will be fine.

It IS possible to have different opinions on a topic without conflict. One of my closest friends has chosen not to vaccinate her daughter, as she had a bad reaction to the Hep B at birth. I understand why she feels that way, and though it is not the decision I would make, I believe she is doing what she feels is best for her child and do not take it as a personal affront.

#17 Corella

Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:42 PM

Yes same here - I live in a fairly alternative region and hang with crunchy types wink.gif and it is very clearly discussed that anyone who's sick needs to keep it to themselves. The expectation is that, vaccinated or not, it's not up to those who are healthy to pick and choose what they pick up.

#18 His Boy Elroy

Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE
My problem would be associating with whack job parents who have "done their research" and are not immunising because of whatever conspiracy theory they believe.


+1


#19 Alina0210

Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:54 PM

About 40% of little kids I know aren't vaccinate or delayed vaccinated, wouldn't bother me at all.... No issue at all

Usually the parents are on the ball and won't bring kids if they are sick etc

#20 password123

Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:02 PM

QUOTE (Mumma Mash @ 12/01/2013, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get it. Kids who are vaccinated are the ones carrying the disease... Not the other way around.
I think you need to get educated in both vaccinated and non vaccinated to settle you're nerves.

Holy cow. Did I just read that? I think I just lost a few brain cells.

#21 soontobegran

Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

QUOTE (purplekitty @ 12/01/2013, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with what STBG has said about the particular circumstances where I would be concerned.My Bold
Have you told them you don't vaccinate particularly if there are newborns , pregnant women or other health conditions?
I would think that might generate at least some discussion about ground rules and expectations in the group,vaccinated or not.

I'd be furious if I took my newborn to a playgroup and was not told that some of the children were not vaccinated!


QUOTE (Mumma Mash @ 12/01/2013, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get it. Kids who are vaccinated are the ones carrying the disease... Not the other way around.
I think you need to get educated in both vaccinated and non vaccinated to settle you're nerves.

Hmmm? unsure.gif


QUOTE (Alina0210 @ 12/01/2013, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
About 40% of little kids I know aren't vaccinate or delayed vaccinated, wouldn't bother me at all.... No issue at all

Usually the parents are on the ball and won't bring kids if they are sick etc


I think in your role as a Doula Alina that it would be fairly important to know that you are not at risk of passing on anything to your clients so I actually think it is quite important to know the vacc status of people you may spend a lot of time with.
That being said I have no idea whether you are a vaccinator and are vaccinated yourself or not so it may be irrelevant. original.gif
I have to say that I don't have the faith that you have in the non vaccers keeping their children away because they are sick , I have experienced the opposite with some non vaxxers in my DD's husbands family and also the fact that many are infectious before they present with symptoms that would alert the parent to their being a problem is also a worry.

#22 caroldiem

Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

If it was me i wouldn't attend especially if i had a newborn or was pregnant too risky, it just comes down what you are comfortable with i think there is a greater risk of catching a awful disease if you are around unvaccinated kids it's just a fact

I wouldn't go i also wouldn't relate to mums who don't vaccinate i would get into a major argument with them in the first 5 mins original.gif

#23 Jembo

Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

I have never found it to be a topic that is discussed myself and wouldnt have a clue who at playgroup did and didn't and the same with school.

I have never thought to ask anyone I am meeting if their vacs up are up to date and never been asked myself (unless it is a medical professional or school etc you are enrolling in).

They both had delayed vaccinations and honestly no one would really have a clue.



#24 Beancat

Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

Its all well and good for the parents of the non-vax kids to keep their kids at home when sick, but what about the instances when they are contagious BEFORE the symptoms are revealed?  This can be disasterous for pregnant women and newborns

Personally I would not join a group like this.  Mainly because I don't agree with them compromising herd immunity but they are happy to free ride from the herd immunity provided by the vaccinated population

#25 purplekitty

Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE (Jembo @ 12/01/2013, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have never found it to be a topic that is discussed myself and wouldnt have a clue who at playgroup did and didn't and the same with school.

I have never thought to ask anyone I am meeting if their vacs up are up to date and never been asked myself (unless it is a medical professional or school etc you are enrolling in).

They both had delayed vaccinations and honestly no one would really have a clue.
Yes, but do you think other parents have a right to know in situations such as playgroups where all the children get up close and personal?

As I said before, in certain situations I would want to know,particularly if there are any VPDs around.





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