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Lance Armstrong & Oprah
What a joke!!


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#1 B.feral3

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:20 PM

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/lance-...0109-2cfi5.html

I know this is the news section but I have to vent.

So the word is going round is that Lance Armstrong is going to confess that he is a drug cheap on Oprah. This is nothing but a very calculated business decision in my opinion. A few years from now when he has spun this in such a way that instead of shame he gains public sympathy, using the cancer victim angle as an excuse, he'll be back on the public speaking circuit making more money than ever.

I've seen him speak at a work conference. He spent the entire hour and a half telling us how he was an innocent and honest man fallen victim to a witch hunt.  mad.gif

Oh, and he's not taking a fee from Oprah. How honourable.  rolleyes.gif

Pass me a bucket.

Hang your head in shame Lance Armstrong. You have made a mockery of yourself, your sport and your country.

#2 ~Supernova~

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:26 PM

If he needs to hang his head in shame, then so does almost all of the cycling community. I still like him *meh*

#3 PixieVee

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

I hope he has the ball to own up.

#4 purplekitty

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:40 PM

Perhaps there's another book deal on offer.

He's a disgrace.



#5 BadCat

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE (PixieVee @ 11/01/2013, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hope he has the ball to own up.


roll2.gif

#6 Drowningnotwaving

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:45 PM

QUOTE (PixieVee @ 11/01/2013, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hope he has the ball to own up.


Lol.

I think he will cry.

#7 Bart.

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

I agree.  He'll be touring after this with the message of, "Don't do what I did, kids!"

#8 B.feral3

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE (Bartholomew @ 11/01/2013, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree.  He'll be touring after this with the message of, "Don't do what I did, kids!"


Exactly.

#9 (feral)epg

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

I might wait to see what he says before judging it!

#10 purplekitty

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:12 PM

QUOTE (epg @ 11/01/2013, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I might wait to see what he says before judging it!
I don't see how he can put a positive spin on years of deceit.



#11 Turn left

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:13 PM

QUOTE
If he needs to hang his head in shame, then so does almost all of the cycling community.


Anyone who knows anything about cycling, and has been into the sport for a long while, knows there is a strong history of drug abuse amongst nearly all of the elite cyclists, very few are innocent.  It's been part of the culture behind the sports elite during the last century, and many Tour De France cyclists and other elite cyclists have been caught cheating- many haven't that should have been.  

Lance Armstrong is most likely not innocent.  But neither are most others.

#12 B.feral3

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE (Turn left @ 11/01/2013, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lance Armstrong is most likely not innocent.  But neither are most others.


Other cyclists have confessed though, and they were not the winners either, or doing the motivational speaking circuit. They are not accused of bullying or intimidation tactics and bribery and so much more.

#13 Bart.

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:21 PM

My husband called him a drug cheat years ago and I laughed it off saying that it'd have to be a system-wide cover up and surely not that many people would be in on it. blink.gif

#14 greengoddess

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

Gawd, you're carrying on like he stomped on your kitten.

Are you honestly so naive as to believe that even the "innocent" athletes don't take massive amounts of various substances (legal and/or illegal). It's the nature of performance sport. The sooner we accept that drug-taking in sport is no more immoral than every other thing an athlete does to get ahead, the better. Just because some organisation draws up an ever-changing, arbitrary list of drugs to demonise does not mean that the athletes who take them are "fallen". It's such a flawed concept and one that is based on a presumption that without all these "evil" drugs, all the athletes would have the same chance. Simple fact of the matter is that they don't. Athletes are not equal; they do not have equal access to facilities, funding, coaching, opportunities, sports scientific advice and so on - why should the substances they take make any difference in a system that is predicated on inequality? It should make no more difference than the shoes they wear or what they had for breakfast.

100 years ago, professional coaching was as demonised as drugs are today. Immoral! Cheating! Unfair! Against the spirit of sport!

Soon enough, we'll have a new evil to get hysterial about.

Regardless of formal titles or not, Lance Armstrong still beat all those other competitors. He was still the best seven times over and every other cyclist knows it.

#15 B.feral3

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

Sorry PP, you lost me at 'naive'.

Edited by Bek+3, 11 January 2013 - 08:37 PM.


#16 purplekitty

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE (greengoddess @ 11/01/2013, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Regardless of formal titles or not, Lance Armstrong still beat all those other competitors. He was still the best seven times over and every other cyclist knows it.
Yep,you've convinced me.
I'm off to tell my children that cheating if perfectly fine ,even admirable,as long as everybody else is cheating as well.Just be the best cheater and liar you can be.

Taking performance enhancing drugs is also great,don't worry about the side effects,in the pursuit of winning a sporting event.


#17 PixieVee

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:48 PM

I'm going to enter the Tour de France next year, but I'll be using  chopper.

#18 Propaganda

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:54 PM

I honestly have no idea why it's such a big deal.

Some guy who rides bikes for a living did so on drugs. It's hardly the end of the world.

I understand it's unfair on competitors who performed without assistance from drugs, but his cheating is hardly as devastating as people make out.

#19 myhandfull

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:59 PM

Ok, take an average cyclist,  give him the same drugs and watch Lance Armstrong kick their a*se! Regardless of drugs,  that guy has talent. You won't change my mind either.  

I'm with the other PP's. Would still be an amazing man to meet. He won 7 times. I give him credit for his dedication to the sport. It's sad that he needed drugs for recovery etc, but I too think it would be naive to think that most others are not doing the same :-(

#20 purplekitty

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

QUOTE (Propaganda @ 11/01/2013, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand it's unfair on competitors who performed without assistance from drugs, but his cheating is hardly as devastating as people make out.
To many cancer sufferers who looked at him and saw his recovery from cancer, maybe it was devastating to learn it was achieved with the illegal and dangerous use of drugs and not naturally achieved.
Remember his influence went way beyond the sport of cycling.


#21 greengoddess

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE (purplekitty @ 11/01/2013, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yep,you've convinced me.
I'm off to tell my children that cheating if perfectly fine ,even admirable,as long as everybody else is cheating as well.Just be the best cheater and liar you can be.

Taking performance enhancing drugs is also great,don't worry about the side effects,in the pursuit of winning a sporting event.


What is cheating? To act unfairly? Why are drugs unfair? Why is it NOT unfair that someone else has a better bike? Or better nutrition? Or doesn't have to work a full time job on top of training? Sport is completely and thoroughly unfair.... so why is it only drugs that we get so upset about? Why not many of the other inequalities? This is what I don't understand. We waste time and tremendous resources controlling and regulating the bodies of athletes - for what? What do we gain? Why is the world a better place knowing that Lance Armstrong was CAUGHT!!! Why is his achievement any less impressive because he took a drug to keep his body from falling apart? Maybe we need to look at the unrealistic demands being placed on athletes' bodies and change the sport so that these drugs are no longer needed.

And secondly, what side effects? And if we're SO CONCERNED about the health of the athletes, then surely regulation by a medical professional is more desirable than clandestine drug taking? The drugs they are taking are drugs that people take every single day of their lives for various reasons, with no side effects. I've known body builders who have cycled on and off the most extreme concoctions of steriods etc and what side effects have there been? None. Other than their muscles getting bigger, which is less a side effect and more the desired outcome. There is very little scientific evidence - only anecdotal evidence - that confirms all these TERRIBLE SIDE EFFECTS.

But sure, carry on with the hysterical "I'll tell my kids it's OK to cheat" if that's what helps you sleep at night. It's pretty hard to rid oneself from the massive amounts of propaganda that present the issue in such a one-sided way.

For me, I could care less what people take. Take drugs, don't take drugs - whatever. But I wish people could step outside the witch hunt long enough to see that the sky isn't falling in, this isn't the downfall of sport (or society!) and there are plenty of other (real) inequalities that are much more worthy of our time and attention.


#22 greengoddess

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (purplekitty @ 11/01/2013, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To many cancer sufferers who looked at him and saw his recovery from cancer, maybe it was devastating to learn it was achieved with the illegal and dangerous use of drugs and not naturally achieved.
Remember his influence went way beyond the sport of cycling.


But cancer sufferers don't just sit there and "naturally" achieve health - they take chemicals, pretty bloody strong ones at that, to help recover and improve their bodies. Would they feel treated that he had chemo to overcome cancer? Then why would they, in particular, feel cheated that he took drugs in other areas of his life. This doesn't make sense.

Your post gets to the heart of the question though - why do we think that sport is "natural". If it was natural, then athletes wouldn't have a special diet, wouldn't use sports science to improve, wouldn't train, wouldn't need better and better equipment. Any old fool could get up off the couch and compete - surely that is the most natural of all!

Let's be clear - elite, performance sport is as far away from "natural" as you can possible get. It's not the same activity as what kids participate in; it's a whole world away.

#23 purplekitty

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (greengoddess @ 11/01/2013, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And secondly, what side effects? And if we're SO CONCERNED about the health of the athletes, then surely regulation by a medical professional is more desirable than clandestine drug taking? The drugs they are taking are drugs that people take every single day of their lives for various reasons, with no side effects. I've known body builders who have cycled on and off the most extreme concoctions of steriods etc and what side effects have there been? None. Other than their muscles getting bigger, which is less a side effect and more the desired outcome. There is very little scientific evidence - only anecdotal evidence - that confirms all these TERRIBLE SIDE EFFECTS.

But sure, carry on with the hysterical "I'll tell my kids it's OK to cheat" if that's what helps you sleep at night. It's pretty hard to rid oneself from the massive amounts of propaganda that present the issue in such a one-sided way.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/performan...g-drugs/HQ01105

#24 greengoddess

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:38 PM

purplekitty - none of these risks are confirmed; they are all "might" and "may".

#25 greengoddess

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE (Madame Catty @ 11/01/2013, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What a ridiculous argument.  Yes there are many inequalities more worthy, but having an opinion on this one doesn't impact those.  Surprisingly my brain is big enough to handle it all.

It's cheating because the other players were not on equal footing in regards to drugs.  Bigger and better bikes, or some fancy helmet, are all legal.  The drugs were not, the other players were not aware they were being used.  I take issue with some douche bag making millions on a lie, of gaining admiration and trophies on a big fat lie.  And when he was caught out?  More lies.


No, it's not cheating because the others were not on equal footing in regards to drugs. You really can't know that. And to suggest that the others did not know that drugs were being used - well, that really is naive!

Doing something different from other competitors is not inherently cheating. Actually, in sport, it's the point of preparation and training - that's how you find the competitive edge.

I agree that the lies he told were poor form - but then again, you could argue that the system forces athletes to lie. My issue is a broader one with respect to why drugs are singled out when other performance enhancements, or other inequalities, are not. Wht are we SO CONCERNED about this "unfair advantage" but not the millions of others that occur in sport?? It's a fundamental discrepancy, based on flawed presumptions, misinformation and illogical reasoning.





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