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Uh-oh, I'm having some major regrets...


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#1 ~Karla~

Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:58 AM

About changing puppy preschools. sad.gif

First session at the new one last night, and it was an hour of sitting down listening to someone read out of a folder while the puppies were expected to sit on their mats calmly. There was one aggressive pup who the instructor told the owner to pick up and hold, because she was growling and snarling and barking and trying to attack the other dogs. Not quite the doggie manners I was expecting to be taught...

Oh well, I just need to wait for the last vx to kick in and we can start taking her out to meet other dogs next week.

#2 ~*Twilight~Zone*~

Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:38 AM

That doesn't sound any good at all.

What a waste of time

#3 steppy

Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

OMG how boring. People really do that at puppy schools? What a waste of time.

#4 ~Karla~

Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

I know. The girl who took the last one was a bit of a nutter but at least she was a good dog trainer. There was lots of interacting between every person there and every puppy, lots of play between puppies and basic commands, good ideas for TT'ing and to stop furniture chewing, what good doggie manners are and how to teach/enforce them etc.

Last night, the pups got about 10 minutes off lead to play and the rest was really basic "only feed your dogs premimum dry food" and similar generic, bland advice. What a waste of money seeing as I've paid in advance. sad.gif

#5 *Ker*

Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:33 PM

I'd try to get my money back. She's an idiot and doesn't know what she's talking about. You DON'T pick up and hold an aggressive dog because you're raising her level above the others AND rewarding her. She should be teaching distraction techniques.

Idiot.


#6 ~Karla~

Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:19 PM

I know ker! It's crazy!

#7 *Spikey*

Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

Sounds decidedly odd. The infotainment is supposed to happen while your puppies are playing. They're puppies - they have no idea how to remain still, and they have the attention spans of gnats.

Try for your money back if you can. Good luck.

#8 caninestorm

Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

Ok, I'm here to put a positive spin on the situation biggrin.gif

One of the most important things for a dog to learn is to be able to settle with distractions... being able to sit/lie calmly while you are talking to someone or are busy doing something. So you can get off to a good start with that... reward your pup when they are calm and on their mat. You can start to associate a word with the mat... so that you can send him there when you need to. Pups are never too young to learn how to settle, although you obviously shouldn't expect too much at the start biggrin.gif

When the puppy that is carrying on makes noise, ask for your pup's attention (using his name usually) and reward that. It's a great lesson for him that even when someone else is misbehaving, he should pay attention to you!

I want my dogs to be able to be in a group of other dogs without constantly wanting to play or investigate, so this is a positive as well. I'm not a fan of puppy preschools that are nearly all play. My dogs do learn appropriate play but generally with either one other compatible puppy at a time, or with a small group of older dogs who have predictable temperaments and reactions. As a result, they're able to interact in a group of dogs without being completely silly about it biggrin.gif

So... glass half full, not half empty biggrin.gif

#9 Red Cabbage

Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:53 PM

I get what caninestorm is saying, but then I think... she's (the puppy preschool trainer) giving advice of picking up an aggressive dominant dog, surely she has no idea of what she is talking about.

#10 caninestorm

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

There's more than one way to train dogs. Personally I don't think that picking up a young puppy who is acting aggressively (ie. scared or overstimulated) the worst thing in the world. It's a way of removing it from the situation which is ok, I think as the behaviour is an emotional one it's more difficult to reinforce than most people think... I do think that the puppy obviously needs further training and socialisation, so I hope the trainer did recommend that.

Anyway, I didn't really listen to a word my trainer said in puppy preschool, but I went for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post original.gif

Edit: A baby puppy isn't "dominant" and "aggressive". It is most likely fearful.

Edited by caninestorm, 11 January 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#11 *Ker*

Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:01 AM

QUOTE (caninestorm @ 11/01/2013, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's more than one way to train dogs. Personally I don't think that picking up a young puppy who is acting aggressively (ie. scared or overstimulated) the worst thing in the world. It's a way of removing it from the situation which is ok,

Edit: A baby puppy isn't "dominant" and "aggressive". It is most likely fearful.


Fear aggression is still aggression.

And yes, removing the puppy. From the room. Not elevating it's status over the other dogs and rewarding it for unpleasant behaviour by picking it up!


#12 caninestorm

Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:41 AM

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, I'm trying to put a positive spin on things. If OP has already paid for the classes and wants her pup to go to puppy school then she may as well make the most of it.

I've found that when it comes to training dogs, you come across all kinds of opinions and methods and you just have to sort through them, smile and nod if you have to, argue if you have to, but come to your own conclusions and train your dog the way you want. I have grinned and beared it many times (and argued a few times as well but generally those don't end too well) and have made it out the end fine biggrin.gif

When one dog is disturbing the class it can be difficult for the instructor. If you send them out of class, they won't learn how to deal with it and will likely feel shunned and often upset. If you spend time talking to them about the best thing to do, you deprive the other students of their time in the class. If you ignore it, you annoy everyone else. So perhaps they just didn't know how to deal with it in a class situation.

Edit: At the puppy school I went to, they gave heaps of information that, in my opinion, was totally wrong eg. you can exercise your pups as much as you want including beside a bike even at 4 months old, and that they shouldn't have bones of any type including raw. It made me shudder, but I just ignored it and focussed on my own pup original.gif

Edited by caninestorm, 12 January 2013 - 07:43 AM.


#13 *Spikey*

Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE (*Ker* @ 12/01/2013, 01:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fear aggression is still aggression.

And yes, removing the puppy. From the room. Not elevating it's status over the other dogs and rewarding it for unpleasant behaviour by picking it up!


This.

And why would you want to put a positive spin on a fundamental mistake?

This isn't a different 'training method', this is a serious blunder that will exacerbate the problem that the dog has. It doesn't matter that the Instructor is inexperienced - or rather, if she knows that little about dog behaviour, she shouldn't be taking the class on her own.

#14 ~Karla~

Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

The instructor did end up taking the puppy up the front with her a few times to get her to settle down (the owner kept smacking her when she was barking and snarling) but I was kind of gobsmacked at the way she ignored the hitting and encouraged the owner to pick the puppy up. It's going to be a big dog too and I was just sitting there thinking whacking it and picking it up when it's snarling is just going to lead to a whole world of problems. sad.gif

There were a few things that made me go huh, but that was the worst.





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