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Kids taking photos of other kids' "private parts"
Would you be worried?


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#1 censura carnero

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

My kids spent the day with another family a couple of days ago and when I went to pick them up the mum told me that their 6 year old daughter had taken photos of my DD on the toilet.  She told my DD who is 4  that she was going to put them on facebook.  When I went to pick them up the mum who I am friends with told me straight away but worded it like this "well you'll probably hear it from DD anyway".  Told me what happened and said she had deleted photos and that she had banned her DD from the ipad until schools starts back.  She looked  upset and embarrassed  when she told me but I got the feeling she only told me because she thought I'd hear anyway.  When I got home my son told me that the daughter had taken photos of him too but she didn't get his penis because he put his hands over his crotch. He told me that he had told the mother but mum (my friend) didn't mention that side to me.

Ok I get that kids do silly things and experiment etc.  I'm ok with that.  However, I told a mutual friend about it and she said that their son had exposed himself to their 18 month old baby.  Waved his penis in the baby's face.  He had also taken nude photos of their 3 year old daughter.  I'm worried that the only reason they would do this is that they have been subjected to some kind of abuse themselves.  There is absolutely no proof of course otherwise I would have no hesitation in reporting the situation.

When I discussed it with my kids that night I told them how proud I was of them for telling a grown up and it's never ok to keep secrets from mummy and daddy.  Told them that their private parts (explained what they were) are for them and no one can touch them or take photos of them.

I will not be letting my children go the house without me being present again because my gut tell me that something is off. Is this innocent childhood exploration or something more?  Such a sensitive and touchy subject that I'm a bit confused how to deal with it. Bloody hell.  sad.gif



#2 Expelliarmus

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

Well, you don't need proof to make a report.

QUOTE
What are reasonable grounds?
You do not need to have proof to report any concerns you have about the safety of a child under 16 or a young person. Indicators that represent reasonable grounds to report a suspected offence include:

- A child or young person discloses that he or she has suffered or is suffering non accidental physical injury or sexual abuse
- Someone else advises you that a child or young person has been sexually abused or non-accidentally injured, or
- Your own observations of the child or young person's physical condition or behaviours lead you to reasonably suspect that the child or young person has suffered or is suffering non-accidental physical injury or sexual abuse.
From http://www.childwise.net/Self-Help-Guide-b...-australia.html

If it were me I'd probably make the call but only because I'm a mandated reporter and would cover my own butt. If I wasn't, it's borderline for me - no disclosure has been made by a child, but it's iffy, isn't it?

It's up to you whether or not you do.

Edited by howdo, 10 January 2013 - 08:45 PM.


#3 iwanttosleepin

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

Could be some sinister or totally innocent.

My DS (6 years old) was visiting a good mate's house one afternoon and when I went to pick him up him and his friend were in the worst mood.  They were so embarrassed because they had been found looking at each other's bottoms.  Both got a good talking to and there have been no incidents since.


#4 censura carnero

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

QUOTE (iwanttosleepin @ 10/01/2013, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Could be some sinister or totally innocent.

My DS (6 years old) was visiting a good mate's house one afternoon and when I went to pick him up him and his friend were in the worst mood.  They were so embarrassed because they had been found looking at each other's bottoms.  Both got a good talking to and there have been no incidents since.


I see that as normal childhood exploration.  It's a fine line though.


#5 emnut

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

I'm in two minds about this - not overly concerned about the taking of the photos as such (but I would want to see for myself they had been deleted) - my reason for this is that my DS when he was about 6 or 7 took photos of me in the shower & drying myself.  On the other hand though, once we explained to him why it was wrong he has never done it again.  There was nothing in it from him, no abuse etc to him, just pure being carried away with his ability to photograph people.

How old was the son when he took the photos and waved his penis in the baby's face?  That would also influence whether or not I would report in case anything is happening.

How the other mother handled the situation doesn't sound ideal at all but then it could be genuine embarrassment on her part that she wouldn't have otherwise said anything.  I know DS had a sleepover at a friends house & his mum was most embarrassed & sorry to have to tell me that DS saw her DH naked in the middle of the night.  Again like your friend - she told me because she knew if she didn't DS would have.

#6 censura carnero

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE
once we explained to him why it was wrong he has never done it again. There was nothing in it from him, no abuse etc to him, just pure being carried away with his ability to photograph people.

How old was the son when he took the photos and waved his penis in the baby's face? That would also influence whether or not I would report in case anything is happening.


Son would have been 5 at the time. Your point about taking the photo and then after a stern talking to never did it again is my issue.  He hasn't done it again that I'm aware of but it's his sister. It makes me think that he possibly has photographed his sister which makes her think it's ok.

Edited by censura carnero, 10 January 2013 - 08:56 PM.


#7 SeaPrincess

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

I might actually bring it up with the parent/s out of concern for the children, so not in an accusing way, but suggesting to them that it's not normal.  Children wanting to look at each other is one thing, the photos takes it to the next level, but a 6yo threatening to post inappropriate photos on FB - that's just not normal.

#8 censura carnero

Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

I'm not concerned about the facebook thing because I did ask mum about that and she said she knows about facebook as she sees her putting family pics up for the relatives to see.  But in a sense it is a worry because it was like a threat to DD.  My 4 year old who has no idea about facebook freaked out and went and told the girl's mum at that point.  Despite not knowing what it was she knew that the images were made for others to see.

Edited by censura carnero, 10 January 2013 - 09:15 PM.


#9 emnut

Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

QUOTE (censura carnero @ 10/01/2013, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Son would have been 5 at the time. Your point about taking the photo and then after a stern talking to never did it again is my issue.  He hasn't done it again that I'm aware of but it's his sister. It makes me think that he possibly has photographed his sister which makes her think it's ok.


It may be the case but not necessarily - you said that he had taken photos of her at this age but it may be a case of either she didn't remember or that he was reprimanded in private/doesn't have any recollection of the repercussions of it.  It could also be fairly normal childhood instance of playing around with a device that takes photos and not understanding the whole lack of appropriateness of when you can and can't take photos.  

Is the mother aware that you know of the past photos and penis waving incidents?  If so then I would talk to her about your concern with all the incidents together.  If not and you have any doubt then you can always report it so authorities at least have it on record.

ETA - I am normally very proactive when it comes to protecting DS from any sexual deviance due to a history, however, I was not there to see the demeanour of the mother which may well be contributing to your concerns.

Edited by emnut, 10 January 2013 - 09:56 PM.


#10 Jembo

Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

QUOTE
told a mutual friend about it and she said that their son had exposed himself to their 18 month old baby. Waved his penis in the baby's face. He had also taken nude photos of their 3 year old daughter. I'm worried that the only reason they would do this is that they have been subjected to some kind of abuse themselves.


I have 2 boys, and I have lost count of the times they think taking pictures of each others bums is funny .  Just yesterday I had to tell the littlest one off for sticking his penis in the cats face.  Neither have been subjected to anything untoward.





#11 Holidayromp

Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:07 PM

DH caught my DS who is two waving his penis at his older sister aged 10 saying 'Doodle Doodle Doodle' she of course was giggling but there was nothing untoward.  He has a great fascination in it and has yet to learn boundaries.

But one thing I am trying to get DH to stop calling it a Doodle because everyone else in the family calls penis' just that! grrrr

#12 CallMeFeral

Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

I've no idea whether it's normal or not, but I agree with listening to your gut.

#13 Fifi LaRue

Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

It's hard to say really, without being there.  The DD could have been thinking she was taking a cute photo and said she's going to put in on FB because she thought it was a 'cute' photo, rather than being a threat.  I have pretty much always said to my kids - 'awww that's a cute one - it's going straight to FB'!  The mum was probably embarrassed and somewhat anxious because some people really freak out over stuff like this and she might not have known how you would react.

As for their DS, I tend to take 2nd hand information with a grain of salt, unless I really, really trust the person telling me and their interpretation of the situation.  Again mainly because some people tend to over react to fairly simple situations, I was thrust into the middle of a very similar situation, where I witnessed an incident, and both sets of parents had very different version of said event simply because of their interpretations and emotions involved.

If however, you have any other worries or think of any other sexualised behaviour that the children have been displaying I would report it.

Edited by Fifi LaRue, 10 January 2013 - 10:30 PM.


#14 Cat12

Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:34 PM

QUOTE (Jembo @ 10/01/2013, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have 2 boys, and I have lost count of the times they think taking pictures of each others bums is funny .  Just yesterday I had to tell the littlest one off for sticking his penis in the cats face.  Neither have been subjected to anything untoward.


My younger boys will flap their willy at anyone that looks their way.

Cat

#15 saxa

Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:47 PM

I think the "normal" line has been somewhat blurred since I was a kid to what it is today in many many ways.

There was a time once when being inquisitive and "showing" private parts was normal, in this day and age with cameras on phones, social networking etc these things are seen as " normal"

In a day and age where parents are constantly taking photos on phones of their kids and posting to Facebook  are so common it is possible these kids think that is "normal"

I really hope it is nothing more sinister than kids doing what they think is normal, but these days we are so quick to jump to the most extreme possibility.

Edited by saxa, 10 January 2013 - 11:49 PM.


#16 FlutterbyBlue

Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:56 PM

I would rather report it and be proven wrong, than let it go and find out later I should have gone with my gut.  It's worth losing a friendship if children are being abused.

Also you have no proof that ALL the pictures were deleted, and again, I would rather be wrong than have inappropriate photographs of my children popping up anywhere at any time.



#17 Nofliesonme

Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:01 AM

A 6yo using Facebook is the first thing that stood out as wrong......
I'm in 2 minds. My DD1 a few years back took photos of me naked breastfeeding and in the shower until we had the talk that she shouldn't do that. I didn't realise until we were going through camera. Lol.

DD2 done the same thing recently she would walk and say cheese no matter what state I was in.

This is all innocent. I'm not sure about your about your scenarios. Have they been there before, has this happened before ? If they been there before it could be harmless if not I'd be concerned.
Eta: after re reading about him exposing himself id be concerned.

Edited by thunda, 11 January 2013 - 02:08 AM.


#18 Feral Alpacas

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:34 AM

I'd go with your gut, talk to the mum again, ask to see the camera etc. and get your kids a copy of Everyone's Got a Bottom. It's a great book that explains private parts and teaches kids that their bodies are their own.

#19 ~sydblue~

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:43 AM

There is a big difference between some of the things being mentioned in this thread, and the OP's post.

I am normally pretty laid back but if DD came home at 4 and told me her friend had taken photos of her on the toilet, I would be ringing and reporting it.
There is a big difference between kids of that age waving their willies around and showing bums, and kids taking photos(or trying to) of other kids privates and then threatening to put them on Facebook.


#20 DreamFeralisations

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:49 AM

QUOTE (censura carnero @ 10/01/2013, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My kids spent the day with another family a couple of days ago and when I went to pick them up the mum told me that their 6 year old daughter had taken photos of my DD on the toilet.  She told my DD who is 4  that she was going to put them on facebook.  ...She had banned her DD from the ipad until schools starts back...


Another one with the 6 year old on Facebook freak out - and I am thinking it may not even be in the home, if she is having unsupervised access on her iPad.  Prime target to groom?

I think you handled it pretty well and reiterating to your kids about no secrets from Mummy and Daddy is fantastic.

I was ropeable about someone playing a game with my little one, having "a secret from Mum" - it is very important in my world that they are able to talk to you.




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