Jump to content

education article in the Age
performance of high performing students


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 mum850

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:05 PM

http://www.theage.com.au/national/educatio...0109-2cgud.html

There are a couple of statistical issues with this.. regression to the mean, etc

Do you think schools pay enough attention to the higher performing students?

#2 BadCat

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

No.  Schools do not pay enough attention to higher performing students.  It's a massive problem with the education system and something needs to be done about it.  These students need to be engaged and encouraged and what is happening in my experience is that they are being left to their own devices and becoming bored and lazy because the system is more interested in making sure that nobody fails than it is in making sure everyone reaches their potential.

#3 DrFeral

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

No, I don't.  I have had issues already with regards to this such as refusal to do "dead easy" maths and teachers only answer was "I know it's easy but you HAVE to do it" and then I've been told that my child is not engaged with their learning.  It's been this way for a while now and I can't help thinking that this is all too common- A child who goes to school but learns very little is going to tune out after a while.

#4 Guest_Dinah_Harris_*

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

My kids aren't old enough for school, but that was certainly my experience at school, 15 years ago.
Have things changed much since then?

#5 DrFeral

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

The thing I've noticed from when I was at school is that they expect more in kindergarten but then it all drags from then (when I was in primary school, kinder was like pre-school is now).  If they pick things up quickly in kinder they get really disappointed as the years progress and then by the time they finish high school they actually know less (from the uni undergrads I see).

#6 Expelliarmus

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

IME one of the difficulties is that the powerful stakeholders (the Ed Dept and the government) do not see the top students as a priority because they are trying to bring everyone UP to a benchmark. They are not concerned with those who have exceeded the benchmark.

At the individual school level teachers and leadership teams make note of it, and put it on the agenda but at the end of the day, the only data that the highest level of Ed Dept and government leaders look at is the benchmark and whether or not children have made it to that.

So you get a huge pat on the back for improving student data and having more kids meet the benchmark. You are given no feedback or assistance or funding for students who are exceeding the benchmark.

It's therefore down to the individual teacher and whether or not they have the intrinsic motivation or personal inclination/policy/philosophy to work at the higher end.

And even if that happens *no one measures the top end*. So you don't know how truly effective it is or how much it is happening. My DD1 scored in the triangle for all NAPLAN areas except numeracy and there is no data available about exactly how advanced she is.

#7 baddmammajamma

Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (howdo @ 10/01/2013, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
IME one of the difficulties is that the powerful stakeholders (the Ed Dept and the government) do not see the top students as a priority because they are trying to bring everyone UP to a benchmark. They are not concerned with those who have exceeded the benchmark.

At the individual school level teachers and leadership teams make note of it, and put it on the agenda but at the end of the day, the only data that the highest level of Ed Dept and government leaders look at is the benchmark and whether or not children have made it to that.

So you get a huge pat on the back for improving student data and having more kids meet the benchmark. You are given no feedback or assistance or funding for students who are exceeding the benchmark.

It's therefore down to the individual teacher and whether or not they have the intrinsic motivation or personal inclination/policy/philosophy to work at the higher end.

And even if that happens *no one measures the top end*. So you don't know how truly effective it is or how much it is happening. My DD1 scored in the triangle for all NAPLAN areas except numeracy and there is no data available about exactly how advanced she is.


Very depressing, but I don't doubt any of it. sad.gif

I appreciate everyone's frustration.

At the same time, I know that with a little effort and innovation, schools CAN help gifted kids flourish. My little public high school did a great job (this was back in the 1980s, and they are still doing well) of offering extension, subject matter & grade acceleration, AP (advanced placement) classes, and access to university classes.

My kids' school (small, totally non-glitzy private school in Sydney) does a great job with gifted students, with particularly strong approaches for the 2e kids like my daughter.

I wish that schools who "get" gifted/2e were more openly lauded and celebrated.

It would be great, too, if some of the principals, heads of learning support & heads of G&T from these schools could go into other local schools and help their peers make positive changes in their own schools. There are things that can be done that don't require massive budgets or extra staff, but they do require people who can think outside the box.

#8 mum850

Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE (howdo @ 10/01/2013, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
IME one of the difficulties is that the powerful stakeholders (the Ed Dept and the government) do not see the top students as a priority because they are trying to bring everyone UP to a benchmark. They are not concerned with those who have exceeded the benchmark.

At the individual school level teachers and leadership teams make note of it, and put it on the agenda but at the end of the day, the only data that the highest level of Ed Dept and government leaders look at is the benchmark and whether or not children have made it to that.

So you get a huge pat on the back for improving student data and having more kids meet the benchmark. You are given no feedback or assistance or funding for students who are exceeding the benchmark.

It's therefore down to the individual teacher and whether or not they have the intrinsic motivation or personal inclination/policy/philosophy to work at the higher end.

And even if that happens *no one measures the top end*. So you don't know how truly effective it is or how much it is happening. My DD1 scored in the triangle for all NAPLAN areas except numeracy and there is no data available about exactly how advanced she is.

Exactly. The ceiling on NAPLAN is too low as it's a tool really to establish how  many kids are at benchmark. It would be great it it went higher, or there was an extra bit that you could give the top students, to accurately grade the top end as well as the bottom end.

#9 BadCat

Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:19 PM

You can make the school do something for your child but it took me many years of agitating to get any sort of coherent program running, just in time for my youngest to leave the school.

The programs I finally put in place for my kids ended up being a bit of a waste anyway because within weeks the school started shoving all sorts of kids into the programs who were not up to it, thus dragging the programs down to average yet again.  In the end I ran a maths program and I split all the mediocre kids into one group and took them separately to the group of 4 or 5 kids who were actually up to the challenge.  Parents should not have to be doing that.  The education department should have comprehensive programs to deal with all students.

#10 axiomae

Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

A lot of the issue is institutional structure. I teach high school English and have classed of 25+ students at varying levels of ability. Some would be considered gifted, some very very low (year 10 students that can't read a sentence) and most sit around low-average in terms of NAPLAN scores.

The problem is, given that we have practically no time to prepare classes (3 lessons of 70mins a week for 18 x 70min lessons) and no in-classroom support unless you have a student with verified special needs, it is very hard to both reach those students at the lower end who really need it, and also to extend those students at the top end who really need it. It's an awful predicament and something teachers struggle with. You basically end up teaching to the middle (at least in high school with so many classes, it may be easier in primary with the one class of students) which is dreadful, and no one likes doing it, but it's the only way you can survive as a teacher.

- I will note here too that I am a very good teacher in terms of improving outcomes because I spend a lot of time at home at night preparing to help individual students. I'm currently on maternity leave with my first child and I'm not sure I will be able to continue doing that when I go back to work as I have my own child to look after now -

Some schools have accelerated classes (streaming I guess) which works in a lot of cases as you can 'pitch' your lessons to a greater majority of students. This, however, can lead to issues with behaviour in a lot of the non-accelerated classes as you have a greater concentration of "behaviourally-challenged" students that cause disruption, which leads to less learning time for everyone.  

The solution would be smaller class sizes and more preparation time. This is something that teachers have been fighting for for years. It costs money though, and teachers have had to go on strike around the nation just to keep what provisions around prep time and class sizes they DO have. If classes got bigger or teacher prep time was taken away even further, we wouldn't have an educational system. Teachers aren't constantly stressed for no reason. We're expected to do so much, and not given much support form the system that demands it.

Edited for spelling

Edited by axiomae, 10 January 2013 - 02:24 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Five ways my second pregnancy is second best

As I roll into the second half of "Pregnancy: The Sequel", here is breakdown of the differences I have found thus far.

Domestic politics

Why I felt guilty about having a cleaner

Coming home to a clean house was a pleasure – and yet, I felt uneasy.

'Ugly' hearing aid ad leaves parents fuming

When Alecia Donoghue found out her baby would need hearing aids she worried about him becoming the target for schoolyard bullies.

Have you seen these missing children?

The Australian Federal Police has released the following information to locate some of Australia's missing children through the Family Law Court.

Margarita time

Keira Knightley welcomes first child

British actress Keira Knightley has become a first-time mother.

IVF patients in the dark over which clinics are least successful

Couples with fertility problems have little way of knowing which IVF clinics are the best performers despite significant differences between clinic success rates.

Couple forced to defend their decision to become parents

They met, fell in love and got married. Then, just like couples everywhere, Simon and Vicky Moore decided it was time to have a baby.

The one parenting tip that made all the difference

Amongst the useless, ill-informed advice we're given as new parents, many of us also receive nuggets of wisdom that make our lives just that little bit easier.

Five lies you tell yourself when you're pregnant

You can see it all now: glowing mumma with her gorgeous babe ... you know exactly what you're going to be like. Or perhaps you know exactly what you're not going to be like.

Family expecting fourth set of twins

A couple is expecting their fourth set of twins in five years.

The day my daughter almost drowned

We had six adults standing there, so I felt like I could relax a bit. After all, what could go wrong with so much supervision?

Sydney siege survivor names baby after victim Katrina Dawson

A Sydney barrister who survived the Lindt cafe siege has named her newborn daughter after her best friend who died in the tragedy.

The universal working mother experience

These days mothers need more than just traditional career advice.

Obama feels full force of toddler tantrum

Shopping centres, restaurants, the White House ... the list of places toddlers like to throw tantrums is endless.

Banishing bloat

How to avoid a bloated tummy

Here are some foods to eat in order to escape feeling ghastly and gassy.

The great new picture book for anxious kids

My son is a worrier by nature. I learnt long ago that it was completely pointless to say to him "Don't worry about it!".

Budget stripped more than $15b from families

The combined impact of the two budgets for low and middle income people was "devastating", new analysis by the Australian Council of Social Service shows.

Pregnant women urged to get flu shots

As the winter chill starts to arrive, NSW Health is urging pregnant women to get their flu shots.

65-year-old gives birth to quadruplets

A 65-year-old German woman, who already has 13 children, has given birth to quadruplets.

What you need to know about pregnancy and health insurance

It's not just waiting periods that couples need to consider - there are other factors to consider when thinking about health insurance.

Yummy mummy

Nicole Trunfio breastfeeds baby on Elle magazine cover

Australian model Nicole Trunfio has taken the concept of multitasking to a fashionable new level for Elle Australia.

Warnings after baby girl died while sleeping in bouncer

Parents have been warned about the dangers of letting babies sleep in bouncers and swings following the death of a three-month-old girl.

Coping with fatigue as a parent

Sleep deprivation is a real hazard of caring for a baby. But there are ways to manage the challenges of fatigue better.

A very 21st century issue: parents, parks and smart phones

It's not all the parents, and it's not all the time, but there is often at least one doing it. And sometimes, that 'one' is me.

Appliances

Faulty washing machines linked to house fires

More than 80,000 faulty Samsung washing machines pose a fire threat in homes throughout Australia despite a nationwide recall of the machines.

7 things you might not know about postnatal depression

Despite its widespread nature, there is still a great amount of mystery surrounding PND - and it's important to try unravelling as much of that as we can.

Seven questions you should be asking about your health cover

If the last time you assessed your health cover was five years ago, there?s a chance it may no longer suit your needs. To ensure it?s still right for your family, click here for seven questions to ask.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

How to use gas effectively in labour

Many women in labour don't use gas effectively and suffer more side effects than benefits. Here's how to get the most out of this pain relief option.

'He has gastro but that's okay, right?': sick kid etiquette

We cannot place all children who are sick in a bubble till they recover, but we can give other parents a choice about exposing their kids to them.

Welcome to Winter

Now that the colder months are here, Essential Baby as all the information you need for staying healthy and happy during the chilly season.

Ada Nicodemou: 'I can never be completely happy again'

Home and Away actress Ada Nicodemou has opened up about the loss of her stillborn baby.

10 things to consider when you're thinking about trying for a baby

Before you start tracking your menstrual cycle and reading up on the best positions to get pregnant, there are a few other things you may want to consider.

How special surgery and IVF can create a post-vasectomy baby

Cricket legend Glenn McGrath and his second wife Sara are expecting their first child together, thanks to IVF and a delicate surgical sperm retrieval process that helped the couple to conceive.

Belle Gibson's mother 'disgusted and embarrassed'

The mother of disgraced wellness blogger Belle Gibson has accused her daughter of lying about her childhood in an attempt to garner public sympathy.

Doctor's mobile phone 'left inside c-section mum'

A new mum claims a doctor left his mobile phone inside her after delivering her baby via caesarean section.

I'm a mum and I'm following my dreams

I want my kids to know that no matter what happens in life, you can still be who it is that you've always wanted to be.

Those first daycare days

I had this innate 'mum' moment the other day.

'If one person had listened, my life would have been so different'

Katherine's father will die in prison for the horrifying sexual abuse of his daughter. Yet she is the one with the true life sentence.

This new plan undermines breastfeeding and baby health at everyone's expense

Mothers, babies, the health system and the wider society are going to pay the price of this new budget.

Couple to celebrate terminally ill baby's birthday in unique way

Baby Jai Bishop has lived at Starship Hospital for the past seven months, with his parents flying back and forth from Hokitika, 1100km away, to be by his side.

Life On Mars

It's men who need 'retraining', not women

We are all responsible for our own behaviour. Telling victims to harden up is wrong.

Baby Gammy's dad tries to claim charity money

The biological father of baby Gammy has reportedly tried to access charity money raised for the little boy's medical costs.

Where are the childcare places?

It?s all very well to encourage women to work if they choose to, but how can the measures lead to increased workforce participation when women are once again left holding the baby?

The pain of not having babies and not knowing why

After seven years of wishing, hoping, crying, punching pillows and shouting "why me?!", the end result is more than I ever thought possible.

Getting your family finances in order

Whether you're after a new car for a growing family, a bigger house, or are just fixing up your finances, here are the basics on borrowing.

Mum shares graphic selfie to warn against tanning

A mum has shared a graphic photo of her skin cancer treatment as a warning to others.

Does parenthood make us happier?

We can certainly gain higher levels of happiness when we become parents, but the trick is to not get overwhelmed by the pressures of raising our kids.

No, having a dog is not like having a human child

It's obvious these people dote on their pets, but they're barking up the wrong tree.

 

Top baby names

Baby Names

The numbers are in and we can now bring you the 2014 top baby name list for Australia.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.