Jump to content

education article in the Age
performance of high performing students


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 mum850

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:05 PM

http://www.theage.com.au/national/educatio...0109-2cgud.html

There are a couple of statistical issues with this.. regression to the mean, etc

Do you think schools pay enough attention to the higher performing students?

#2 BadCat

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

No.  Schools do not pay enough attention to higher performing students.  It's a massive problem with the education system and something needs to be done about it.  These students need to be engaged and encouraged and what is happening in my experience is that they are being left to their own devices and becoming bored and lazy because the system is more interested in making sure that nobody fails than it is in making sure everyone reaches their potential.

#3 DrFeral

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

No, I don't.  I have had issues already with regards to this such as refusal to do "dead easy" maths and teachers only answer was "I know it's easy but you HAVE to do it" and then I've been told that my child is not engaged with their learning.  It's been this way for a while now and I can't help thinking that this is all too common- A child who goes to school but learns very little is going to tune out after a while.

#4 Guest_Dinah_Harris_*

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

My kids aren't old enough for school, but that was certainly my experience at school, 15 years ago.
Have things changed much since then?

#5 DrFeral

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

The thing I've noticed from when I was at school is that they expect more in kindergarten but then it all drags from then (when I was in primary school, kinder was like pre-school is now).  If they pick things up quickly in kinder they get really disappointed as the years progress and then by the time they finish high school they actually know less (from the uni undergrads I see).

#6 Expelliarmus

Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

IME one of the difficulties is that the powerful stakeholders (the Ed Dept and the government) do not see the top students as a priority because they are trying to bring everyone UP to a benchmark. They are not concerned with those who have exceeded the benchmark.

At the individual school level teachers and leadership teams make note of it, and put it on the agenda but at the end of the day, the only data that the highest level of Ed Dept and government leaders look at is the benchmark and whether or not children have made it to that.

So you get a huge pat on the back for improving student data and having more kids meet the benchmark. You are given no feedback or assistance or funding for students who are exceeding the benchmark.

It's therefore down to the individual teacher and whether or not they have the intrinsic motivation or personal inclination/policy/philosophy to work at the higher end.

And even if that happens *no one measures the top end*. So you don't know how truly effective it is or how much it is happening. My DD1 scored in the triangle for all NAPLAN areas except numeracy and there is no data available about exactly how advanced she is.

#7 baddmammajamma

Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (howdo @ 10/01/2013, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
IME one of the difficulties is that the powerful stakeholders (the Ed Dept and the government) do not see the top students as a priority because they are trying to bring everyone UP to a benchmark. They are not concerned with those who have exceeded the benchmark.

At the individual school level teachers and leadership teams make note of it, and put it on the agenda but at the end of the day, the only data that the highest level of Ed Dept and government leaders look at is the benchmark and whether or not children have made it to that.

So you get a huge pat on the back for improving student data and having more kids meet the benchmark. You are given no feedback or assistance or funding for students who are exceeding the benchmark.

It's therefore down to the individual teacher and whether or not they have the intrinsic motivation or personal inclination/policy/philosophy to work at the higher end.

And even if that happens *no one measures the top end*. So you don't know how truly effective it is or how much it is happening. My DD1 scored in the triangle for all NAPLAN areas except numeracy and there is no data available about exactly how advanced she is.


Very depressing, but I don't doubt any of it. sad.gif

I appreciate everyone's frustration.

At the same time, I know that with a little effort and innovation, schools CAN help gifted kids flourish. My little public high school did a great job (this was back in the 1980s, and they are still doing well) of offering extension, subject matter & grade acceleration, AP (advanced placement) classes, and access to university classes.

My kids' school (small, totally non-glitzy private school in Sydney) does a great job with gifted students, with particularly strong approaches for the 2e kids like my daughter.

I wish that schools who "get" gifted/2e were more openly lauded and celebrated.

It would be great, too, if some of the principals, heads of learning support & heads of G&T from these schools could go into other local schools and help their peers make positive changes in their own schools. There are things that can be done that don't require massive budgets or extra staff, but they do require people who can think outside the box.

#8 mum850

Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE (howdo @ 10/01/2013, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
IME one of the difficulties is that the powerful stakeholders (the Ed Dept and the government) do not see the top students as a priority because they are trying to bring everyone UP to a benchmark. They are not concerned with those who have exceeded the benchmark.

At the individual school level teachers and leadership teams make note of it, and put it on the agenda but at the end of the day, the only data that the highest level of Ed Dept and government leaders look at is the benchmark and whether or not children have made it to that.

So you get a huge pat on the back for improving student data and having more kids meet the benchmark. You are given no feedback or assistance or funding for students who are exceeding the benchmark.

It's therefore down to the individual teacher and whether or not they have the intrinsic motivation or personal inclination/policy/philosophy to work at the higher end.

And even if that happens *no one measures the top end*. So you don't know how truly effective it is or how much it is happening. My DD1 scored in the triangle for all NAPLAN areas except numeracy and there is no data available about exactly how advanced she is.

Exactly. The ceiling on NAPLAN is too low as it's a tool really to establish how  many kids are at benchmark. It would be great it it went higher, or there was an extra bit that you could give the top students, to accurately grade the top end as well as the bottom end.

#9 BadCat

Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:19 PM

You can make the school do something for your child but it took me many years of agitating to get any sort of coherent program running, just in time for my youngest to leave the school.

The programs I finally put in place for my kids ended up being a bit of a waste anyway because within weeks the school started shoving all sorts of kids into the programs who were not up to it, thus dragging the programs down to average yet again.  In the end I ran a maths program and I split all the mediocre kids into one group and took them separately to the group of 4 or 5 kids who were actually up to the challenge.  Parents should not have to be doing that.  The education department should have comprehensive programs to deal with all students.

#10 axiomae

Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

A lot of the issue is institutional structure. I teach high school English and have classed of 25+ students at varying levels of ability. Some would be considered gifted, some very very low (year 10 students that can't read a sentence) and most sit around low-average in terms of NAPLAN scores.

The problem is, given that we have practically no time to prepare classes (3 lessons of 70mins a week for 18 x 70min lessons) and no in-classroom support unless you have a student with verified special needs, it is very hard to both reach those students at the lower end who really need it, and also to extend those students at the top end who really need it. It's an awful predicament and something teachers struggle with. You basically end up teaching to the middle (at least in high school with so many classes, it may be easier in primary with the one class of students) which is dreadful, and no one likes doing it, but it's the only way you can survive as a teacher.

- I will note here too that I am a very good teacher in terms of improving outcomes because I spend a lot of time at home at night preparing to help individual students. I'm currently on maternity leave with my first child and I'm not sure I will be able to continue doing that when I go back to work as I have my own child to look after now -

Some schools have accelerated classes (streaming I guess) which works in a lot of cases as you can 'pitch' your lessons to a greater majority of students. This, however, can lead to issues with behaviour in a lot of the non-accelerated classes as you have a greater concentration of "behaviourally-challenged" students that cause disruption, which leads to less learning time for everyone.  

The solution would be smaller class sizes and more preparation time. This is something that teachers have been fighting for for years. It costs money though, and teachers have had to go on strike around the nation just to keep what provisions around prep time and class sizes they DO have. If classes got bigger or teacher prep time was taken away even further, we wouldn't have an educational system. Teachers aren't constantly stressed for no reason. We're expected to do so much, and not given much support form the system that demands it.

Edited for spelling

Edited by axiomae, 10 January 2013 - 02:24 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Win a Mountain Buggy Swift

To celebrate Essential Baby reaching half a million Facebook fans, we have a Mountain Buggy Swift to giveaway to a lucky fan.

Shopping with kids: breaking the pester-power cycle

You're out shopping with your little one and they're incessantly whining that they want a treat. It's easy to say no ... the first time, at least.

eBay jacket may hold clue to murdered girl's identity

A jacket similar to the one found with the remains of a brutally murdered little girl in South Australia has been identified on eBay.

New mum forced back to work early due to paid parental leave 'technicality'

Shelley Parker had to keep driving buses until the date her baby was due and will have to rush back to work at the end of this week after being denied paid parental leave on a "technicality".

Pregnant Amanda Palmer poses naked for book drive

It has to be the most original way ever of promoting a children's book donation day.

The conception dilemma facing many parents today

Some parents who conceived through a sperm donor will be wary of telling the child, while others prefer to deal with it early on. But recent research suggests it makes little difference either way.

The wedding photo the bridesmaid would rather forget

We've probably all seen a passed-out bridesmaid at one wedding or another, but it usually happens towards the end of the night.

Pregnant TV meteorologist takes on haters

Pregnant TV meteorologist Katie Fehlinger has hit back at haters who called her a "sausage in casing".

Honest words from first-time mums

I didn't want to say anything negative to my pregnant friend, but I wish I'd been more honest.

Adorable baby experiences rain for the first time, couldn't be happier

Harper had seen rain from the comfort of indoors before, but had never had the pleasure of being outside and experiencing it first hand.

What it's really like to start a family in your fifties

Many people suppose that it must be much more tiring to have a baby in middle age, but all the mothers in the playground look exhausted, whatever their age.

'Biggest hypocrite ever': Josh Duggar admits to Ashley Madison account

An American reality TV star has been busted with a cheating website account, according to US media.

Long recovery ahead for girl hit by car weeks after baby brother's death

A little girl is more alert and starting to talk after being hit by a car a week ago, but still faces a long recovery.

How to react when a toddler lies

Q: My almost-3-year-old is starting to figure out that he can lie when asked if he ripped the book, threw the food, hit his brother, etc. Totally normal, I know. How do we respond?

The circular experience of a Centrelink client

A mum-to-be experiences the frustration of dealing with Centrelink, myGov and everything in between.

Kelly Clarkson announces live on stage: 'I'm pregnant!'

Singer Kelly Clarkson has announced she is pregnant with her second child during a concert in Los Angeles.

Hack

How to search the leaked Ashley Madison data

At least three sites are republishing Ashley Madison's user data on the public-facing internet.

Mum dances her way through labour

There are a fair few ways to distract yourself and beat pains while in labour, but it's probably a rare woman who chooses her dance her way through it.

'Rest in peace, my little lion': premmie baby Jacob passes away

Baby Jacob, whose photo of him born at just 27 weeks was deemed 'too graphic' for a fundraising site, has died.

Mum killed three young sons 'to help her daughter', prosecutor says

Niall Pilkington's death last summer apparently raised little alarm in Bellefontaine, Ohio. Tragic accidents happen, after all.

Shorter women have shorter pregnancies: study

When a group of researchers studied nearly 3500 mothers and their babies, they noticed a curious pattern.

Get your FREE Baby & Toddler Show ticket!

Get your free ticket to the Sydney Essential Baby & Toddler Show for September 25-27 - register online now.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

The worst 20 minutes of my life

Thirty seconds was all it took to turn a shopping trip into my worst nightmare.

Top baby names for England and Wales in 2014

George has overtaken William in the official rankings of most popular British baby names - and Game of Thrones is still having an impact on parents.

Baseball or baby? Dad's tough choice

What's more important, a baby or a baseball? That's a question this dad seems to struggle with.

Childbirth choices: five star or free?

It's not often you hear the words labour and luxury in the same sentence but for some, a 5-star start to parenthood is exactly what they seek. And with a number of private hospitals now offering packages which include a post-birth stay at a sumptuous first class resort, many mums are choosing to recover in style.

'Where did your boobies go, Mummy?' and other soul-destroying comments from kids

Most women carry a smidge of baby weight after giving birth. If you're lucky enough to have an older child in the house, they can keep you on track with your weight loss goals.

Do you read me, baby?

Is it too soon to be reading to my two-month-old son? If not, what should I read?

Minimising sibling rivalry when you've got a baby

Sibling rivalry is an act of competition, but if your children feel involved and special, this type of jealousy will be minimised.

Will studying on maternity leave take you away from your most important job?

I remember when I was trying to decide if I could combine motherhood and furthering my university education.

Win a Pacapod this Father's Day

To celebrate dads and families, we are giving away a Picos Pack from Pacapod Australia filled with a few extra goodies ENTER NOW

Preschooler hit by car shortly after baby brother's death

A mother has had a frantic race to the hospital after her daughter was hit by a car, just four weeks after her infant son died.

Gay couple and Thai surrogate in custody tug-of-war

A six-month-old baby girl is trapped in the Thai capital in a bitter custody wrangle between her Thai surrogate mother and her biological father.

Couple denied IVF over parenting concerns

A mother of six has been denied access to IVF treatment in order to have another child over concerns about her parenting skills.

The book that promises to put your children to sleep

Exhausted parents from around the world are singing the praises of a "miracle" book which promises to put even the most restless child to sleep in just minutes.

5 things every parent who feels guilty needs to know

Parenthood can make you feel bad, but you're not alone.

Royals criticise 'dangerous' attempts to photograph Prince George

The British royal family criticized paparazzi on Friday for what it called their increasingly dangerous attempts to photograph young Prince George.

'No jab, no play' rule to cover Victorian kindergartens and childcare centres

"Anti-vaxxers" face not being able to send their children to childcare centres or kindergarten if they refuse to have them immunised.

15,000 birthing kits on their way to developing countries

Giving birth in a hospital surrounded by medical experts is tough enough, but some women deliver babies without a clean sheet to lie on.

Photo of premmie 'too graphic', fundraising site says

When their son Jacob was born at just 27 weeks, Christina and Jeff Hinks were thrown into an uncertain world.

The latest Bugaboo collections: cool chevron and runner prams

Bugaboo sure likes to keep things fresh, and with the Australian spring/summer season coming up, there are two new Bugaboo pram releases.

Making room for two in the bed

Mum's room or their own room? Cot or bassinets? Deciding where twins will sleep can be tricky.

 

FREE TICKET

See Hi-5 LIVE in Sydney!

Get your free ticket to The Essential Baby & Toddler Show and save $20 - register online now!

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.