Jump to content

Friendzone - a sexist idea


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 CallMeFeral

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

Kind of in the feminist grain I've been in this week...

WDYT of this?

http://fozmeadows.tumblr.com/post/20834902...ce-guy-approach

The idea that guys talking about the 'friend zone' with a woman is quite sexist.
I never really questionned it, because I do know what they mean. And yet this article makes some good points. Maybe it depends on the context it's used in. The article certainly has a certain bias.

But some quotes I particularly liked

"girls are not machines that you put Kindness Coins into until sex falls out."

and

"s*ut is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say yes.

Friendzone is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say no."

Your thoughts?

#2 RedBob

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:19 PM

Agree with it. The bit I thought was interesting was this
QUOTE
What we learned as kids is that we males are each owed, and will eventually be awarded, a beautiful woman. We were told this by every movie, TV show, novel, comic book, video game and song we encountered…
which resonated as more than a few times over the years I've mentally yelled at the TV/film screen "No! Don't GO THERE!" when some heroine is throwing her lot in with the bloke that has just stalked her, or sent anonymous emails or however he has "proved" his love.



#3 Floki

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

Bob - now it's unacceptable for a man to pursue a woman he likes ? Far out....She can say bugger off anytime she likes.

#4 Country (deci)Mel

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

I remember being quite shocked to hear of the sighing disappointment that men come to when they realise they have made a friend when what they were actually aiming for was a romantic rendezvous.

It wasn't something I'd ever thought about really as someone with lots of male friends...

But then I was talking with my Auntie after I had just met my cousin's awesome, awesome fiancee.

After saying how awesome I thought she was (did I mention she is awesome? She is!) his mother said "Oh yes, he wasn't letting her slip into the 'friend sphere'... when he met her he made it quite clear that he was interested in her romantically, luckily for them it worked out."

Now this man is a great person, he has heaps of good female friends, works in a gender neutral type industry and I was quite surprised to think that he would approach his love life this way.

But as his mother explained both he and his brother were 'unlucky in love' - they somehow always managed to be the 'great mate' or the 'wonderful caring friend' but never the 'boyfriend' and when my cousin met this awesome girl he decided he couldn't bear to sit back and be her friend while she embarked eventually on a romance with someone else..

So he laid his cards on the table and it worked out.


I then went back and asked a few of my good male friends what their intentions had been when we first met...  to my horror to a one they had all 'befriended me' in the hope of getting into my pants!

Luckily for me (and them) my charm and hilarity ensured that they stayed around long after they realised that that wasn't on the table.

I was however really surprised - and it made me look back on my early twenties through a completely different tint of glass!

#5 Bunsen the feral

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

It's a concept that has had me feeling uneasy for a while - because it seems so benign and most of us can relate to unrequited love. But the more it becomes a meme and the more you see it, it starts to become "look at all these mean women who won't put out for all these nice men"

#6 Feral_Pooks

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

I think it's a well written article and I will certainly be watching movies and tv with a more critical eye toward that kind of rubbish.

Eta. CountryMel, I had a similar experience when after my epic break up a few years ago, about a dozen of my male friends had a crack and said they had always been interested... My current partner is one of my old male friends but didn't make a move, just continued to offer friendship and support, and I pursued him wub.gif

Edited by Pooks_, 09 January 2013 - 12:31 PM.


#7 FluffyOscar

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:29 PM

It looks like some bullsh*t FB concept (I'm not on FB). Are women not allowed to have any input into their romantic relationships? Or have I missed something? I feel very old...

#8 RedBob

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:30 PM

I can't think of a movie example ATM BM, and maybe someone can help me, but certainly one teen book I can think of had the bloke raping the woman, she gets pregnant, he decides she is the love of his life and marries him. I read it as a teen (Easy Connections, I know some people remember it).

Of course it's good if blokes pursue women they're interested in, but not to the point that the woman says no, and he keeps doing it. As we all know, that crosses the line into stalking and it's criminal behaviour which can have a devastating impact on the victim. As a victim of stalking myself, I know what that feels like. But there have been, and no doubt will in the future be movies where the heroine says no, her defences get worn down by constant bombardment by the bloke and she eventually capitualtes and says yes. And he "wins the girl" which is in itself also inherently sexist, as most movies don't have the woman "winning" the hero at the end.

Which is exactly what the article is about.

#9 Z-girls rock

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

I have only read a little bit about this friendzone thing.

If I am being honest I have said it in the opposite way. MY poor DH had tons of girls who were friends and very little romantic experience before he met me.
He tried to confuse me into friendship too! But I was not having it! hahahaha

I had to explain to him that if we kept going out and he was super nice but didnt take any of my hints then we would be in danger of being friends...
me "is this what you want"
him "no".
me "then kiss me you fool!"

roll2.gif


but he is a genuine nice guy who had no idea.

these other d*ckheads are actually jerks who want to blame women for their failings. Like the guys who think all women who dont like their pickup lines must be lesbians.

#10 cinnabubble

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:42 PM

That irritating Clementine Ford wrote an article that touches on it and didn't utterly annoy me yesterday: http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views...0107-2ccch.html

#11 slvhwke

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

I've read it before & agreed with it then & now.

This one also sums it up well for me.

Just to quote out of that blog piece I linked.

QUOTE
5) The Friendzone Is Not Really An Actual Thing
If a woman is just your friend and not someone you're having sex with, that is what we in certain circles call a 'friend'. Yes, what you have there is a friendship, one between you, a man, and a second person, a woman. This can sometimes happen. The chances are she's not 'put' you there because women get off on torturing men, but because she simply wants to just be friends with you, like you might be with a dude. Sex is not the default interaction between men and women. Sex is a thing that happens between two (or more!) people that express a sexual interest in one another and then gratify it by mutual consent. It's not something you're supposed to expect, but which women then cruelly decide to deny you from their lofty position as the gatekeepers of the sexual realm. Friendships with women that feature no sex can be rewarding. Try viewing said woman as a person rather than a target for your d*ck, and see what happens.


So yes - I think the concept of a friendzone is a bulls*#t sexist idea created by men who are not as nice as they think they are.

If you are my friend - be my friend.  If you want to get into my pants then front up and let me know.  Ask me on a date.  Send me a card - whatever you need to get that message to me.  If I say no then don't continue to be my friend if you are just hoping that I might get drunk enough to sleep with you anyway.


#12 steppy

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

The 'friendzone' existed prior to the internet. I had experience with it - tons of male friends until I put on some weight. LOL

#13 PixieVee

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

I'm confused can't women be "friendzoned" by men too?

#14 PigNewton

Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

QUOTE (steppy @ 09/01/2013, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The 'friendzone' existed prior to the internet. I had experience with it - tons of male friends until I put on some weight. LOL

Same. So many boys that I was madly in love with, and they all ended up being great friends, and nothing more, while it took me till I was 24 to get my first proper boyfriend. Going back and talking to them years later, none of them had a clue of how I felt, and just didn't think of me in a romantic fashion. I thought I was putting out signals, but I was friend zoned big time.


#15 Z-girls rock

Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

I have a friend who does this all the time (not to me)

he becomes a womans friend *best friend* the type who is always a shoulder for her to cry on... except that he has romantic intentions and she has no idea.
I get angry with him and insist that he needs to grow up and let her know what his intentions are.
sometimes he does - she rejects him (often because she is confused and now only thinks of him as a friend).
he is then wounded. very wounded. Hurt. devistated (depending on his level of romantic attachment) and distances himself from the friend "for his own good"

he then wants to sook to me about it...

I have told him over and over that he only has himself to blame and if he does it again I am cutting him off as a friend.
My DH cant stand him anymore.

#16 Fyn Angelot

Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE (HappyNewBob! @ 09/01/2013, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't think of a movie example ATM BM, and maybe someone can help me, but certainly one teen book I can think of had the bloke raping the woman, she gets pregnant, he decides she is the love of his life and marries him. I read it as a teen (Easy Connections, I know some people remember it).


I think - it's been years since I read it - that Tess of the D'Urbervilles did something similar.  I think she ended up her rapist's mistress?

#17 steppy

Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

QUOTE (redkris @ 09/01/2013, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Same. So many boys that I was madly in love with, and they all ended up being great friends, and nothing more, while it took me till I was 24 to get my first proper boyfriend. Going back and talking to them years later, none of them had a clue of how I felt, and just didn't think of me in a romantic fashion. I thought I was putting out signals, but I was friend zoned big time.


I actually meant heaps of young men were 'friends' with me until I put on weight, and then they didn't find me as attractive anymore and suddenly didn't want to hang out as much. But yes, I have also liked men who preferred me as just a friend.

I see it from a perspective that if someone wants to sleep with you but says they are a friend, they aren't really a friend anyway - they are just hanging around and waiting for an opportunity and often they will put down your partner to try and make it easier for themselves. I don't like those kind of 'friends'.

#18 Feral_Pooks

Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE (PixieVee @ 09/01/2013, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm confused can't women be "friendzoned" by men too?

As per the article, the narrative is that if a woman friendzones a man she is being harsh and he is not being justly rewarded. If a man friendzones a woman it's because she is unattractive and/or "hopeless".

It is a pretty common story, isn't it, even if it's not always so straight forward in real life it's a common narrative.

#19 CallMeFeral

Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

QUOTE (countrymel @ 09/01/2013, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After saying how awesome I thought she was (did I mention she is awesome? She is!) his mother said "Oh yes, he wasn't letting her slip into the 'friend sphere'... when he met her he made it quite clear that he was interested in her romantically, luckily for them it worked out."

Now this man is a great person, he has heaps of good female friends, works in a gender neutral type industry and I was quite surprised to think that he would approach his love life this way.


Yeah see that's the thing. I think there IS a benefit it painting yourself as a romantic/sexual option first up, to encourage the person to think of you that way, instead of as a friend. I think it can be a factor in whether chemistry involves. You can kind of create a sexual tension that gives rise to chemistry - or you can build a comfortable closeness that is not so conducive to chemistry. So I think the approaches that are sometimes recommended in order to not get 'put in the friendzone' can have some value.

QUOTE (countrymel @ 09/01/2013, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I then went back and asked a few of my good male friends what their intentions had been when we first met...  to my horror to a one they had all 'befriended me' in the hope of getting into my pants!

Luckily for me (and them) my charm and hilarity ensured that they stayed around long after they realised that that wasn't on the table.

I was however really surprised - and it made me look back on my early twenties through a completely different tint of glass!


ohmy.gif
Wow. That would kind of be a shock, I imagine.
I wonder if my habitual way of dressing myself down rather than up is somehow related to this. Or possibly not. Certainly resulted in me not having any male friends who were attracted to me. They must have been there for my sparkling personality.... um... wait... most of them were attracted to my best friend...  huh.gif   hmmm.....

QUOTE (Bunsen @ 09/01/2013, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's a concept that has had me feeling uneasy for a while - because it seems so benign and most of us can relate to unrequited love. But the more it becomes a meme and the more you see it, it starts to become "look at all these mean women who won't put out for all these nice men"


Yes I think that's the thing. The individual concept has some validity, but it get's latched onto by a crowd and starts to send a really different message...

QUOTE (FluffyOscar @ 09/01/2013, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It looks like some bullsh*t FB concept (I'm not on FB). Are women not allowed to have any input into their romantic relationships? Or have I missed something? I feel very old...

It's not a facebook thing... I think you may have missed it! laughing2.gif

QUOTE (HappyNewBob! @ 09/01/2013, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But there have been, and no doubt will in the future be movies where the heroine says no, her defences get worn down by constant bombardment by the bloke and she eventually capitualtes and says yes. And he "wins the girl" which is in itself also inherently sexist, as most movies don't have the woman "winning" the hero at the end.

Which is exactly what the article is about.

I dunno though. I have friends who pursued their partners this way, and they are now completely in love. In fact, as a child I used to visualise the same, but of course the pursuer was always extremely attractive and desirable, and the fantasy didn't cover why on earth I'd have said no in the first place. But I don't think pursuing (within reason) a woman is inherently bad, it's all in the execution.
And I think there are movies where the woman DOES win the guy - that crap one where she dresses up as a male to pursue him - those stupid ones where the most popular guy does some dare and the most unpopular girl comes good and he falls for her and she gets the prize (him). Cinderella. Maybe pride and prejudice. Strictly Ballroom.
That's where I thought the article was a bit biased. I think it's rare that a female is the lead character in a movie (which is a whole other issue) - but when they are, and it's a feelgood genre, they usually get the 'prize'.

QUOTE (PixieVee @ 09/01/2013, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm confused can't women be "friendzoned" by men too?

There was an article saying that theoretically yes (and in practice too). But overwhelmingly the term seems to be used by men about women. Certainly on the internet it is.

QUOTE (steppy @ 09/01/2013, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The 'friendzone' existed prior to the internet. I had experience with it - tons of male friends until I put on some weight. LOL

ohmy.gif
Serious???
Far out, they really do think with those things.  glare.gif

#20 CallMeFeral

Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE (Ange Vert @ 09/01/2013, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think - it's been years since I read it - that Tess of the D'Urbervilles did something similar.  I think she ended up her rapist's mistress?


I think there was something like that... but I don't think it was painted as a positive thing. I thought he became religious or something but kept pursuing her and then ruined her life again and maybe she killed him or something???
Hmmm. Maybe this was a dream I had...

Cinabubble - yes I read the Clementine one first and was going to link to that but found it a bit all over the place - this one was one of the ones she linked to that kind of presented it more concisely.

#21 CallMeFeral

Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

slvhwke - that link is brilliant! True but also hilarious.

#22 PigNewton

Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

FWIW I friend zoned DH after our first date as I felt he was friend material, I wasn't sexually attracted to him at the time, and not my "type" He pursued me for 6 months (not in a stalkery way) to change my mind, and it worked. Married 10 years now. Maybe I am an exception though.

#23 PixieVee

Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

I'm pretty sure I friendzoned my fiancé for a long time too haha.

#24 Jane Jetson

Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

The friendzone is a sexist construct dreamed up by men with Nice Guy Syndrome (characterised by actually being an a*s*hole who doesn't get laid as much as he would like to, then whining about what a nice guy he is and it's all so unfair that women who aren't interested in him won't put out).

In my experience, I either friendzoned or ****-off-a*s*hole-zoned guys I didn't want to sleep with. Not as some sort of punishment or because I secretly wanted them to stalk me, but because I didn't want to sleep with them, which was an entirely legitimate response.

#25 Oriental lily

Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:23 PM

DH used to friend zone heaps of girls before I was with him.
He still has heaps of friends who are girls. Many who still give me funny resentful looks for being the one who got him.

Most people were also convinced he was gay.

DH said he would meet a nice girl, become a friends and didint want to ruin a nice friendship by making it sexual.

These girls had crushes on him. But never enough for them to make a move.

I often think was he being unfair to them? Should he stopped the friendship knowing these girls had more feelings for him?


I think we have to remember its not about grinding lust.

Some of these people who are put in the friend zone also want emotional intimacy on a higher level than just friends.

A proper relationship, with a future.

So I am not sure if it's sexist if it's happening to both genders.

More a massive mis communication.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

WIN an exclusive performance from Sam Moran!

To celebrate the release of children?s musical series Play Along with Sam, out now on DVD, we?re giving one lucky parent the chance to have Sam perform at their child?s pre-school or day care!

The myths and truths of gender swaying

Here are a few popular methods hopeful parents-to-be use to try to get a baby of their preferred gender – and what an expert says about whether they really work.

10 easy DIY Christmas decoration ideas

It's officially time to get into the Christmas spirit. Why not branch out when you put up your tree this year and add a personal touch with a few DIY decorations? We've found the perfect easy-to-make ways to put more festive fever into your home.

The dangerous new trend of glucose challenge test refusal

A dangerous trend is seeing more mothers-to-be declining a relatively simple and painless test to check for gestational diabetes.

Office of Fair Trading reveals naughty toys ahead of Christmas

The Office of Fair Trading has pulled seven toys from shelves ahead of Christmas after they fail safety tests.

Video: Baby boy's trouble with twins

These twin girls will no doubt have fun fooling people in years to come, but nobody will be as confused as baby Landon.

Long-term reversible male contraceptive on its way

Men could soon have access to an injectable long-term contraceptive which works in a similar way to a vasectomy but promises to be easily reversed.

'I tried to kill my baby': one mum's story

After bathing and dressing her three-month-old son, Amanda had a rare moment alone with her baby.

Attack of the 'mummy brain'

I feel that almost every day, someone in my life - be they a friend, family member or complete stranger - feels the need to excuse my behaviour as I have other things on my mind.

Mum of baby who fell ill after drinking raw milk speaks out

A Melbourne mother has described how her son turned grey when he became seriously ill after drinking raw milk.

Australian divorce rate lowest since 1976

Modern newlyweds are now well into their 30s and marriage still offers something powerful a new book argues.

The aftermath of a traumatic birth experience

In Australia, 30 per cent of women find their birth experience traumatic, with 6 per cent going on to develop post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

Young mum burns 'from inside-out'

A young mum is in intensive care after she took a friend's antibiotic and wound up with an ailment that is burning her body 'from the inside-out'.

The disagreement that can break a relationship

If he doesn't change his mind, all I can hope is that I will. It would be a waste to spend the rest of my marriage mourning a baby that never was.

Co-sleeping or no-sleeping? Mum videos worst nap ever

One mother's futile attempt to sleep in caught on camera in a hilarious - and very cute - video.

Why children misbehave during the festive season

While we all like to imagine the holiday season as being a fun, loving and bonding experience; often our reality is quiet different.

I was fat-shamed by my doctor

The fear of being weighed is the most significant factor in women cancelling medical appointments - and now weight-shaming has happened to me.

End of an era: no more childcare

As we reach the end of 2014, we're closing the book on many things for another year, most notably childcare. Our last child has attended childcare for the very last time.

The 7-year itch is more like the 10-year itch: study

Contrary to popular belief, making it past the seven-year mark doesn't mean your marriage will be smooth sailing from there on.

Stop telling us that parenting gets harder

I’m sure that parenting will get harder. But life isn’t exactly smooth sailing for many of us right now, either.

Should children be forced to sit on Santa's lap?

We teach kids it’s okay to say no if they don’t feel safe, so why do some parents force their children to climb in to Santa's lap?

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Baby born weighing almost 14 pounds

Yes, the bouncing baby girl was born by caesarean section. And mum says no more kids.

The dummy debate

I'm the first to admit that when I used to see tiny babies with dummies in their mouths, I thought "Hmm, lazy parenting." And now I apologise.

WIN an exclusive performance from Sam Moran!

To celebrate the release of children?s musical series Play Along with Sam, out now on DVD, we?re giving one lucky parent the chance to have Sam perform at their child?s pre-school or day care!

'I thought I was an only child'

Imagine meeting your double at a school sports event, or regularly being mistaken for someone you haven't met. Separated twins Margaret and Joy tell their story.

Mums reveal their nappy bag essentials

Ever wondered what other mums carry in their nappy bags? We have, so we asked mums to tell us their must-have nappy bag items.

Toddler died because he wasn't given antibiotics soon enough

A 15-month-old boy would almost certainly be alive today if doctors had given him antibiotics sooner, a coroner has ruled.

VIDEO: moment a toddler falls on to train tracks in Melbourne

Shocking footage has emerged capturing the moment a pram carrying a toddler rolled off a platform and onto train tracks in suburban Melbourne.

Sold on natural birth? Read the fine print

In the excitement and anticipation of a first pregnancy, I ignored the fine print: some women, some of the time.

Child with alcoholic mum who drank while pregnant won't win pay-out

A young child is not entitled to criminal injuries compensation after her mother drank excessively while pregnant.

Superbugs killing India's babies, posing wider threat

A deadly epidemic that could have global implications is quietly sweeping India, tens of thousands of newborns dying because antibiotics no longer work.

Can you teach a toddler to sleep in?

Parents share their tips on getting their early risers to sleep in, even for just a little bit longer.

Keeping your relationship on track as new parents

About 70 per cent of couples experience a slump in their relationship within three years of having a baby. Here's how we tried to get back on track.

America's favourite baby names of 2014

Americans are turning to television, Netflix and sports for ideas for what to name their wee ones.

Carers admit to force-feeding children

As Sydney grieves the loss of Sydney siege victims Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson, reports have suggested that both died as heroes.

 

How many weeks til Christmas?

On your To-Do list

Get the "Santa" shopping done without the kids in tow.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.