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Can't believe how many people don't know the appropriate car seat laws?


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#1 zande

Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

I am selling two booster seats through Gumtree atm, a Hiliner and a Vario, great condition, well priced. I have been inundated today with calls from people who won't buy them because they don't come with the H or Protecta harness! Seems S-n-S have really won with their marketing of those.

When I explain to the callers that I haven't used the harnesses as my children were 5+ by the time they went into the boosters and were a good & safe fit with the adult belt (not to mention current research that the harnesses don't provide additional safety and in some cases can be more harmful), all of the callers want them for 3 year olds and want to use them with harnesses!

Sure I know that some 3 year olds can be 18kg+, but I certainly don't know any 3yos IRL who are anywhere near ready for boosters, like I said, both my kids were around 5.5yo.

One lady said her 3yo "wanted" to be out of her baby seat so she thought the booster with harness was as good as the baby seat!

I've now changed the wording on my ad LOL!

#2 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:44 PM

Don't know don't care  sad.gif

#3 Mumma_G

Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

Would you mind sharing the research that you have found that demonstrates that harnesses don't provide additional safety and in some cases can be more harmful ? I would love to read it.

My DS is 5.5yo he still fits very comfortably in his 5 point harness and while he does I have no intention of moving him. As friends of ours in emergency services have all suggested to us that we use as long as possible based on what they see in traffic accidents. My exBIL is a policeman, our neighbour is an ambo and one of our close friends is a fireman all have said the same thing.

#4 noonehere

Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:55 PM

iv noticed in mummys group that a lot of people have no idea about carseat expiry dates and CREP.

i now happily pass that info on everytime car seats come up.

#5 Jax12

Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:58 PM

I agree, I was horrified to see several women in my mother's group post photos of their 4 month olds ff!  And no one wanted to hear that that was incorrect, no matter how subtley you tell them it's against the law and you'd hate for them to get a fine...(subtext, completely unsafe and I don't want your baby to die in a car accident!!)

Just a thought though, maybe those who are savvy with the car seat laws wouldn't buy a second had carseat for their child?   ph34r.gif  I know I wouldn't...



#6 zande

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

Yeah I agree Jax, I would never buy a second hand seat, but it seems such a shame to throw these 2 away, one is only 6 mths old. Hasn't stopped a tonne of people ringing today tho, and I know heaps of people who've bought second-hand seats.  I would never sell a seat that had been mistreated or in a crash.

#7 zande

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

Mrs Mumma there is a stickied post that discusses the harnesses (I think?). It was from the helpful posters on here that I decided against using the harnesses.

#8 Mumma_G

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

QUOTE (Jax12 @ 07/01/2013, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree, I was horrified to see several women in my mother's group post photos of their 4 month olds ff!  And no one wanted to hear that that was incorrect, no matter how subtley you tell them it's against the law and you'd hate for them to get a fine...(subtext, completely unsafe and I don't want your baby to die in a car accident!!)

Just a thought though, maybe those who are savvy with the car seat laws wouldn't buy a second had carseat for their child?   ph34r.gif  I know I wouldn't...



I have that subtext run through my head often! I too wouldnt buy a second hand seat ... unless it was someone know and could honestly trust to tell me if it had been involved in an accident.

#9 mumofenergiserbuny

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

my 2 year old is in a convertable booster seat, five point harness until a certain height then its a standard booster, he grew out of his convertable carseat before 2yrs old and we sort advice from rta etc before getting our current convertable booster.... DS is very tall so we had very limited choices....that being said he will be in boosters until he is too tall for every single booster on the market....

#10 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:24 PM

QUOTE (Mrs_Mumma_84 @ 07/01/2013, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would you mind sharing the research that you have found that demonstrates that harnesses don't provide additional safety and in some cases can be more harmful ? I would love to read it.

My DS is 5.5yo he still fits very comfortably in his 5 point harness and while he does I have no intention of moving him. As friends of ours in emergency services have all suggested to us that we use as long as possible based on what they see in traffic accidents. My exBIL is a policeman, our neighbour is an ambo and one of our close friends is a fireman all have said the same thing.



At the top of this forum is the latest research on ADD on Harnesses... Ie harnesses that you purchase as an accessory to use with a booster seat. This is different to using the inbuilt 5pt harness in a Child restraint.



#11 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

My favourite is tha Add on Harness being like an inbuilt 5pt harness for those under 4yrs. Also the pearler that the Add on Harness is a legal requirement for use of a booster seat.

Summary PP to the research is the add on harness with a booster seat at best provides no better protection, at Worst can Cause internal injuries when compared to a lap sash seatbelt.



#12 Jax12

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (zande @ 07/01/2013, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah I agree Jax, I would never buy a second hand seat, but it seems such a shame to throw these 2 away, one is only 6 mths old. Hasn't stopped a tonne of people ringing today tho, and I know heaps of people who've bought second-hand seats.  I would never sell a seat that had been mistreated or in a crash.

Totally understand, in fact, I would feel completely comfortable selling a perfectly fine carseat that was in good condition and relatively new...I just wouldn't feel comfortable buying one second hand unless I knew the people and was 100% sure that it hadn't been in an accident/wasn't too old.  

I had to try and dissuade my aunty from collecting a carseat off of a curb during roadside collection...still not sure if she got it or not.  It makes me shudder and it's really hard to see people unintentionally putting their child at risk due to ignorance/misinformation.

#13 CherrySunday

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:38 PM

I also can't believe how many people willingly choose to disobey them, or to simply use a seat incorectly because it's 'easier' - BIL & SIL - I'm looking at you  mad.gif

#14 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:38 PM

Yes but misinformation also comes from baby stores selling the products.  sad.gif

#15 Mumma_G

Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

QUOTE (zande @ 07/01/2013, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mrs Mumma there is a stickied post that discusses the harnesses (I think?). It was from the helpful posters on here that I decided against using the harnesses.


The sticked information is 3+ years old and there is no active link to research.

We have SnS AHR with the submarine clip that keeps the belt off the childs abdomen which seems to be the issue raised in the article. My concern is what if the childs arm is out of the regular seatbelt, its not better than a lap belt and in those instances they recommend you do use a harness.

#16 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

Mrs mum a in child restraint research that is recent. Teach your child to sit properly in the booster and their arm does not come out.

Never been an issue for us.

Research

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic...001457509001766

There is also issue of greater loads being put on child's head neck and chest.

Edited by lsolaBella, 07 January 2013 - 06:05 PM.


#17 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:14 PM

Also check out Vic Roads and Kidsafe who have changed their recommendations so that add on harnesses should only be used as a last resort if you must put booster seat in lap belt only seating position


#18 whydoibother

Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

I wouldn't buy a second hand seat at all.

I was just having this conversation.

So for a 4 year old is a booster cushion ok?

#19 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:24 PM

Legal yes, optimal no.


#20 whydoibother

Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

ok just wondering original.gif

We have one as a spare but my kids are in the right seats for their ages original.gif

ETA I just read that they removed booster cushions from the standard?

http://www.kidsafensw.org/imagesDB/wysiwyg...ision2012_1.pdf

Edited by IAmCal, 07 January 2013 - 06:33 PM.


#21 Mumma_G

Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:46 PM

QUOTE (lsolaBella @ 07/01/2013, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mrs mum a in child restraint research that is recent. Teach your child to sit properly in the booster and their arm does not come out.Never been an issue for us.


Your child has never reached for a toy, pencil or pillow? Pulled an arm out of the sash seat belt while sleeping? Because every person who has told me how safe this is in RL I have seen their children do just that.

We have the anti submarine clip, which from doing my own research I wouldnt use the H-harness without. I know in my car just relying on the anchor point allows for a lot of movement. When using the anchor point and the regular seatbelt it doesnt move amd stays firm against the car seat. Because the Maxi Riders are 'versa tether' compatible I think the harness with the submarine clip is the safest option.

All of the links I have read posted/mentioned talk about the h-harness without the submarine clip.

#22 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:52 PM

QUOTE
Your child has never reached for a toy, pencil or pillow? Pulled an arm out of the sash seat belt while sleeping? Because every person who has told me how safe this is in RL I have seen their children do just that.



Yes they do not. From day one in a booster seat any movement is reprimanded they are to sit still in their seats. Kids rear view mirror is handy.

IAmCal yes it is not part of the 2010 standard, but it is still legal to use. Car seats made to 2000 and 2094 standard are legal. Heck even the half booster I sat in 30 yrs ago is more legal to use then an EU ISOFIX booster seat. So long as it has the Aust Stds sticker all is good. Only exclusions are capsules with Velcro belts rather then 5pt harness, they are no longer legal to use, but if you were the original purchaser of the seat depending in the state you still can.



#23 Mumma_G

Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

Thats not going to work for us. We do trips of upto 12 hours a day in the car (obviously with breaks) but I am not going to reprimand every movement nor trust a child to not pull their arm out while sleeping in the car. I wont take the chance that one time they do it we wont be involved in an accident.

I will continue to research but at the moment there is nothing convincing to indicate that a H-harness when used with submarine clip is not the safest option.

#24 liveworkplay

Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE (mumofenergiserbuny @ 07/01/2013, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
my 2 year old is in a convertable booster seat, five point harness until a certain height then its a standard booster, he grew out of his convertable carseat before 2yrs old and we sort advice from rta etc before getting our current convertable booster.... DS is very tall so we had very limited choices....that being said he will be in boosters until he is too tall for every single booster on the market....


yes but that's not in booster mode, it is in car seat mode if you are using an inbuilt 5 pt harness. FRom was in a booster at just over 3. back then there was no seat on the market to accommodate an 18kg, 112cm talk 3 yr old. I was apprehensive but had no other choice. From day 1 I had to remind her on very few occasions to sit properly. I was lucky in that her speech and comprehension were advanced so she understood the importance of sitting properly. She is now 31kg and 138cm talk and still in get booster seat.

OP, I am not surprised anymore about kids safety in cars. If my police officer friends don't know or care, then what hope is there really. I just console myself with the fact that I know my kids are as safe as they can be given the parameters I have to operate in.

#25 Isolabella

Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:26 PM

Mrs mum a we do Melb Sydney and back on average four times a year. No problems. My kids are well trained. They also knw on aeroplanes to always have their seatbelt done up when seated. Has been rule since day 1. But then again my kids not go to booster seats until 5-6 yrs of age.






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