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Why can't the agents kick them out


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#1 KatakaGeoGirl

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

We have dodgy neighbours. Albeit we are moving and their lease will not be renewed and they leave a few days before us. However, I would like to know why the agent acts 'powerless' to do anything about them? Here are a few of the complaints and happenings:

* Police stakeout to which they found 20K worth of stolen goods
* Unregistered large dogs that aren't confined by fences (rather some old couches) and have escaped on numerous occasions, have killed neighbours chickens (been caught doing so) have been impounded several times but they always end up back with the neighbours. When the animals are there they are often left for a week at a time locked in the garage when they disappear for days/weeks on end
* Very reckless behaviour in the neighbourhood particularly driving
* Busted locally for theft
* Neighbour across from us had stuff from his yard stolen, this was after the morning on new years we heard them screaming 'we got away with it' as the neighbours were away.
* Ripped off the screen door when they drive/or plummit through too fast
* Unlicensed drivers and car theft (she continued driving her unregistered and unplated car for several weeks after they were caught
* She denies any of it (oh it was just my friend)
* Constantly on drugs (ie appear 'fine' one day then off their face the next, screaming shouting, carrying on and constantly driving recklessly
* Same said neighbour across from us they recklessly backed the car and broke their carport
* Constant complaints to the REA from us, from the neighbour and from the neighbours whose chickens died as a result of their dogs, and of all the other things they have done
* Have never cut their grass, we live in a high fire zone and the grass is well over a metre high. In fact I heard kids that were visiting there scream 'snake, snake' today.
* Constantly hooning up and down the road and making rackets at ungodly hours of the morning
* Other times they've backed into trees and posts because they cannot drive to save themselves (not to mention we have a street full of little kids)

I live in constant fear of these people knocking our stuff off. She was caught red-handed breaking into a neighbouring house. They are complete idiots.

The only reason they stay on is 'dear Daddy' who is a reputable GP buys her way out of everything, pays the rent on time and supports her. So because they 'pay the rent on time'... or 'he pays the rent on time' they get to stay! I only know about all the ins and outs because I have good friends who know the family and the drs, and they have said that they do so.

It just irritates me that no-one can stop these thieving drug addicts from living there.

I know we're both moving, but until then I live fearing for our stuff being broken into, and the grass catching fire when they accidentally throw out a cigarette on the lawn or something stupid.

And I want to know WHY the agent doesn't do anything about it? I can assure you after we move and our house settles (as we bought it through the same agent) I'll be having a serious word about their rental department (as it is in a diff location/suburb than the sales agency) and I doubt he knows what is going on. Whenever we email or call, we are pretty much fobbed off and told there is nothing they can do. They've even had the police report to the agent but apparently it is considered here-say until she is convicted.

But that doesn't count all the 'other' reckless behaviour.  

The only thing is she has been 'nice' enough to me. I had some junk to clear and she took some of that, and she was all repentant and acted completely innocent. I've tried to stay out of her way and keep to myself, as if I know nothing at all, as I don't want to draw attention to myself. The other neighbour has made it very clear his opinions of them so perhaps why he has been targeted by theft. But I don't get why she acts all innocent and lovely, and completely normal, then a couple of days later acts like a complete moron.

#2 qak

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:02 PM

We have been in a situation where we as landlords had tenants that were the neighbours from hell ( not as bad as yours though!) We could not do anything either.

The problem is that the rental agreement is between the tenant and the landlord, if the tenant pays the rent there is not much the landlord can do.

#3 Feral Nicety

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

Tenants rights which for the most part is the right thing.

We live next door to a house which theoretically has 2 adults and 2 children.  In reality it has up to 6 kids and about 10 adults.  The noise level is insane and when they have a weekend party it's unbearable.  Property manager says when she does the inspection, property is up to standards and the house appears to have the right number of tenants.

#4 B.feral3

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:12 PM

I wont go into it too much but a few years ago we had bad tenants. They turned our well maintained and very tidy investment property into a cesspit within 4 short months. They also stopped paying rent.

We couldn't get them out though because they have kids and rights too apparently. Meanwhile my rights as an investor, landlord, mortgage holder and mother to a family of my own were nil and void. I read so much on EB from tenants whinging they have no rights but in fact it's the other way around. We were left with a massive clean up bill and loss of rent. We were told not to waste our money reclaiming in court either because a judge will write off their debt as they have kids. (WTF, so do I.)

My blood is boiling just typing it.

Do these morons have children?

#5 *melrose*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

All i can say is i feel sorry for you op sad.gif

#6 Feral Nicety

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:20 PM

Bek I feel very sorry for the investors who own the next door house.  The wear and tear on the house with all the extra people is visible and I don't understand the property manager's approach.  I've talked to her a few times about how much their tenancy is impacting our lives and she is all nothing they can do.

#7 *melrose*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:23 PM

QUOTE
Police stakeout to which they found 20K worth of stolen goods


You think they would go to jail for that?

#8 SUSIE25

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

We live next to a boarding house and had a fair bit of trouble from them too. Some similar things you are going through.A guy from council  who also lives by and witnessed it has has helped a bit. He went after the land lord. migh be a bit different as landlord is directly involved with the property. See if you can go through council re the dogs, fencing, fire danger, health dept, anything that will dump them in paperwork. Police can't do much of anything but they are now known to council and the police very well. Paper trail Is there along with complaints from many other people. Amazing what you find out when you talk to all the other neighbours too. Isn't there something in a lease about quiet enjoyment or similar?



#9 KatakaGeoGirl

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:27 PM

She doesn't but her thieving friends do. She also took some kids stuff amongst my junk she said was for her neices. Thing is in front of some people like me she acts completely innocent!

Cannot wait to move as we won't have neighbours.



#10 immismum

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:27 PM

The problem is that they have to break the term of the lease.  You can look up the reason you can breach a tenant if you want to, but it can be quite hard to do.

I had tenants who would have loud parties.  The police wou ld be called.  I would send them a breach notice, for impacting on their neighbours quiet enjoyment of the property.  They would have 14 days to remedy the breach, which meant that they just had to not have a party loud enough for the police to be called in the next 14 days.  If they didn't the whole process would start again at the beginning.  If they do then I could send them a second one, after that I could go to the tenancies list at VCAT and ask for the tenants to be evicted.

It is a very long and involved process, with many chances given to the tenants.

#11 KatakaGeoGirl

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

QUOTE (*melrose* @ 06/01/2013, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You think they would go to jail for that?


She has a court appearance in Jan sometime so I heard. Her friend was listed as a wanted person and caught. I don't know if this is the same or different friends. In any case she keeps poor company.

#12 Liadan

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:31 PM

Because when it comes down to it, landlords have bugger all rights, and the ones who try to do the right thing often end up being burned.

I'm currently looking for a rental property (currently living with my parents), and it makes me so mad to see these people who are abusing the properties that they have been allowed to live in. No respect for other people, and other peoples property.

#13 KatakaGeoGirl

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

Oh the pearler is I think I taught her for a short time during school as a teacher and I suspect she recognises me as I know she went to a school I did a large stint of teaching rounds and I taught the year level she would have been in at the time and she looked familiar. And I wonder if that is why she is being ultra nice to me.

#14 Justaduck

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

I thought things were much tougher than that, but I guess if you are a homeowner, you can't get evicted because you have too many loud parties (you can get fined and into trouble with the police but not evicted) so possibly the rental boards consider that? That one always stands out for me because I had ONE loud party and a particular homeowning neighbour on the street dobbed me in to the landlord, yet they always had loud parties and yet I couldn't complain to anyone except the police when they did things.

My parents have had dodgy tenants in their investment home too (when they bought it they took over a lease) and there wasn't much they could do except wait for her to leave. When she did leave she left the place in a big mess. They had extra people staying there all the time but I think even if you suspect the place has been abandoned you have to give 24hrs notice of entry.

Hope you are out of there soon

#15 ~~Cleopatra~~

Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:46 PM

QUOTE
And I want to know WHY the agent doesn't do anything about it?


All the agent can do is pass on the complaints to the owner, who's best option is usually to just not renew the lease, which it sounds like they have done.

Bek+3 - did you have landlord insurance? when I took it out I was told it covered loss of rent and property damage?

#16 Holidayromp

Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:03 AM

I am not going to enter into this poor little old LL thread BUT irrespective of whether people are renting or not you are going to have problems.  You are just lucky those tenants are renting otherwise you and the neighbours will have to put up with them for a very long time.
The tenants lease has NOT been renewed so the LL is on to them so they will be out.
Unfortunately it is these sort of tenants which make up a very small part of all tenants that give the rest of the tenants a bad name.
Tenants do have few rights and this applies to the good tenants but it is the bad tenants that know their rights and know exactly how to get away with things, push boundaries so in the end they come out in front.  Don't tar all tenants with the same brush.
Laws for both parties are woefully thin but we all make the best of them.  There are bad tenants and my gosh there are bad LL too.
Again, if your investment property is is bleeding you dry or you are struggling with it - let it go - you obviously cannot afford it.  There are other investment options - maybe investing in property is not for you.
Also take out LL insurance - it is your best friend and a buffer against potential bad tenants.  If you are LL and you don't have it - it is like not insuring your car, home and contents against loss.

Edited to add: It is a shame that tenants cannot take out insurance on potentially bad LL - to pay moving costs should things go wrong and to give them a buffer should issues arise.

Edited by Holidayromp, 07 January 2013 - 08:05 AM.


#17 JRA

Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

Most or all of those items are not something that the LL can use to kick someone out. I believe.

LL does not have super powers, in fact they have very little powers to break a lease

#18 Oriental lily

Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:18 AM

I live in a low social eco area.

We have heaps of feral families around here renting.
Known drug dens, basically very unpleasant people.

During the last 10 years our housing compared to the rest of Melbourne is relatively low. The housing investors saw this area as rich pickings. Quickly buy a house, give it a basic upgrade and rent it out cheaply. Many if these are overseas investors who have never even seen the property!
The problem is that that some of these investors were a little bit to over enthusiastic. Never thought the housing boom would stop so also started building properties with cheap home and land packages.

Now realestate is stagnant. We have an over supply of houses around here. Investors don't want to sell because once fees are all done their 'investment' is nothing but a money pit.

So they need to keep renting them out. So they get anyone they can in them.

Including people ready to use and abuse by the property and their tenant rights.

These investors have no emotional investment in the property. They just want to see money from that property coming in.

And will only kick them out if they get behind in rent.

#19 KatakaGeoGirl

Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:29 AM

QUOTE (Holidayromp @ 07/01/2013, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not going to enter into this poor little old LL thread BUT irrespective of whether people are renting or not you are going to have problems.  You are just lucky those tenants are renting otherwise you and the neighbours will have to put up with them for a very long time.
The tenants lease has NOT been renewed so the LL is on to them so they will be out.
Unfortunately it is these sort of tenants which make up a very small part of all tenants that give the rest of the tenants a bad name.
Tenants do have few rights and this applies to the good tenants but it is the bad tenants that know their rights and know exactly how to get away with things, push boundaries so in the end they come out in front.  Don't tar all tenants with the same brush.
Laws for both parties are woefully thin but we all make the best of them.  There are bad tenants and my gosh there are bad LL too.
Again, if your investment property is is bleeding you dry or you are struggling with it - let it go - you obviously cannot afford it.  There are other investment options - maybe investing in property is not for you.
Also take out LL insurance - it is your best friend and a buffer against potential bad tenants.  If you are LL and you don't have it - it is like not insuring your car, home and contents against loss.

Edited to add: It is a shame that tenants cannot take out insurance on potentially bad LL - to pay moving costs should things go wrong and to give them a buffer should issues arise.


I can assure you I don't tar all tenants with the same brush because I am a.tenant and have been for about 7 years at various homes.

#20 B.feral3

Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:40 AM

QUOTE (Holidayromp @ 07/01/2013, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Again, if your investment property is is bleeding you dry or you are struggling with it - let it go - you obviously cannot afford it.  There are other investment options - maybe investing in property is not for you.


Who in this thread has said that their investment is bleeding them dry? That was a weird, random and totally off topic comment!!


QUOTE (Holidayromp @ 07/01/2013, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also take out LL insurance - it is your best friend and a buffer against potential bad tenants.  If you are LL and you don't have it - it is like not insuring your car, home and contents against loss.


I don't know about private renting but you can't rent through an agent without LL insurance. At the time of my particular issue my insurance didn't cover for this that and the other when it came to willful damage by a tenant. With rent, they only paid out after the first $1500 loss then there was a $1000 excess on the rent ($500 for the rest of the policy). So the first $2500 worth is gone before you can claim back. Instead of the REA giving us the bond to put towards repairs, cleaning and professional rubbish removal, they took it to cover some of the lost rent which meant they got their 9% cut of it plus monthly fees. This also meant it reduced the rent debt amount I could have claimed for. That bond was another $1250. $3750 was about what they were behind in rent so a claim would have been pointless. I have since changed insurance companies.  original.gif


QUOTE (Holidayromp @ 07/01/2013, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not going to enter into this poor little old LL thread BUT irrespective of whether people are renting or not you are going to have problems.


I sense some angst. Why are landlords 'poor, little and old' when they have tenants who disturb the peace, are destructive or non paying that they can't get rid of? Are LL's not real people? I thought it was a 'poor OP and neighbour' thread but the question was why can't LL/REA's get them out and there are many reasons why as explained. In my case, it was decided by the courts that they could stay because they had children and no where else to go. They didn't even have to pay rent even though they received rent assistance. Surely I should be entitled to even THAT but no. I had no rights. You should have seen and smelled just the human faeces spread up the walls alone when we were first legally able to gain access to our own property. I personally find your 'poor little old landlord' comments pretty insensitive and somewhat offensive. We didn't realise it was even that bad and had our then baby with us. Filthy and unsanitary was an understatement. We were warned by the REA but I never in my wildest dreams imagined that someone could turn a once clean and tidy environment into such filth and complete waste land in 4 months and raise 2 kids in it. If you think you are sick of reading poor LL threads, I am sick of reading threads where people advise other people what to do to cover up a bad rental history. (Pretend you lived with family and get them to write a reference, etc.) Makes my blood boil.

Again, good luck OP. I feel for you. My mother had new neighbours move into her street 4 doors down (housing commission). She has told me SOOOO many stories since. The guy that use to live there kept the house and yard immaculate. Apparently within 2 weeks of this family moving in, there house was trashed and the garage door had been completely ripped off because they didn't want it there!!! The person she knows who lives 3 doors down, her son shouted out one night after they were having a drunken party to 'keep the noise down'. The next morning they found their dog disemboweled.  sad.gif


#21 Coffeegirl

Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:58 AM

OP.  Other than the damage to the screen door, and the overgrown grass, none of the things you listed are breaching the rental agreement.  

I don't think the landlord or rental agency would have a leg to stand on in court if they wanted to evict based on the above issues (which are the only breaches to the contract).  

The other issues - theft, damage to other's property etc, have nothing to do with the rental agreement.

Yes your neighbours sound dodgy, but I think the landlords hand are tied on this one sad.gif



#22 red_squirrel

Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

The lack of fences has nothing to do with the tenant and everything to do with the owner.
It is up to the owner to provide fences. The tenant has probably asked for them but the owner failed to provide.

#23 B.feral3

Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

QUOTE (red_squirrel @ 07/01/2013, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is up to the owner to provide fences. The tenant has probably asked for them but the owner failed to provide.


You don't know that at all.  rolleyes.gif


#24 KatakaGeoGirl

Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:58 AM

QUOTE (Bek+3 @ 07/01/2013, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You don't know that at all.  rolleyes.gif


Yeah or maybe they didn't ask if they could actually have dogs in the first place? Which I highly doubt... the house isn't built for dogs as it has no secure fencing. We asked our landlord if we could have a dog to which they replied no. So we did the right thing and didn't get one. But I suspect they haven't asked.

And I guess you are right re no leg to stand on with those issues. It is sad though that when there are SO little rentals they choose idiots.

TBH apparently the landlord isn't crash hot either as we knew the previous tenants really well (they had a family with kids) and they actually moved out because the landlord wouldn't fix anything, and the power plugs would spark all the time and they felt it was a fire hazard. That and various roof leaks etc.

So perhaps they kind of belong together...

#25 Holidayromp

Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE (Katakacpk @ 07/01/2013, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
TBH apparently the landlord isn't crash hot either as we knew the previous tenants really well (they had a family with kids) and they actually moved out because the landlord wouldn't fix anything, and the power plugs would spark all the time and they felt it was a fire hazard. That and various roof leaks etc.

So perhaps they kind of belong together...


Yeah  eexcite.gif  Lets match bad LL with bad tenants and then it is win win all round.   biggrin.gif




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