Jump to content

When people get things wrong - spin off


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#1 *cough*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

So I've posted today that I've handed in the last paper for my masters - in criminal justice. So given I've had a glass of wine and now can call myself a criminologist, I might get on my high horse for the evening. I read something in another thread inferring that if someone has family that are criminals then they might be more likely to be bad news (no actual accusation was made but the conclusion was easy to draw).

That's just wrong and I pointed it out. Genetic theories of criminality just have no basis.

It got me thinking (and I suppose law/justice especially is a common one) but what do people say that you know from studies etc is wrong...?

Nothing gets me more ranty then someone saying criminals should be locked up and the key thrown away... I am a strong believer in rehabilitation and think it is one of the main downfalls of our criminal justice system.

Having said that - I will add a big caveat, while I think rehabilitation is  a good thing, it doesn't apply to ALL criminals (for obvious reasons).

ETA: Amend spelling (obviously 2 champers means I can't spell).

Edited by *cough*, 06 January 2013 - 09:07 PM.


#2 Fyn Angelot

Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Ha.  Where do I start?   biggrin.gif

I'll pick an EB favourite theme, that clergy are out to control people.  Trust me, folks, we have our own lives to worry about and don't need to micromanage yours as well!

In regards to your post, though, *cough*, I wonder if in the thread you're referring to, the person wasn't so much suggesting a genetic theory of criminality as a social association?

#3 *cough*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

QUOTE (Ange Vert @ 06/01/2013, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In regards to your post, though, *cough*, I wonder if in the thread you're referring to, the person wasn't so much suggesting a genetic theory of criminality as a social association?


Yes you may very well be right.

Predictors of criminality is a bit of a shopping list (and has both static and dynamic factors - ie prematurity, previous offence history) but I'm still not sure that social association is one of them. I don't think it is a good thing though. There is always agency - people have free will.


#4 FiveAus

Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:59 PM

There is so much posted here that is wrong or misinformed about a particular government department, that it's laughable. I just stay away, cos I work for that department and don't combine work with leisure.

#5 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:59 PM

QUOTE (*cough* @ 06/01/2013, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It got me thinking (and I suppose law/justice especially is a common one) but what do people say that you know from studies etc is wrong...?

The death penalty is the great deterrent of crime. It isn't. And in most cases when people call for it they are looking for vengeance not justice.

Congrats on passing your studies!

#6 sarkazm76

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:01 PM

Boat People.  That "they" are a huge problem and there are sooo many of them..... when in actual fact there are more people here from illegally overstaying their visas then people arrived illegally by boat.  Drives me batty.
And of course that is just one tidbit - pretty much every tidbit thrown around about this topic is bull.

#7 *cough*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:01 PM

QUOTE (Lucretia Borgia @ 06/01/2013, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The death penalty is the great deterrent of crime. It isn't. And in most cases when people call for it they are looking for vengeance not justice.

Congrats on passing your studies!


Oh yeah! This one does my head in. the death penalty does NOT deter crime. I hate when this stuff comes up at dinner parties.

#8 Guest_3Keiki_*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:04 PM

Oh gosh I second the boat people one.
How about that having some appearance of affluence means you are arrogant...

#9 Guest_3Keiki_*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:08 PM

hmmmm the death penalty, I don't think it deters crime either, I agree it is more out of revenge but I do think that some crimes are so heinous that society shouldn't be spending money keeping them alive behing bars until they die of natural causes.... oh course I am very biased with this one but still try to keep an open mind.
cough congrats that is a wonderful achievement if I could have my time over I would have loved to look at this...

#10 FiveAus

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

QUOTE (sarkazm76 @ 06/01/2013, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Boat People.  That "they" are a huge problem and there are sooo many of them..... when in actual fact there are more people here from illegally overstaying their visas then people arrived illegally by boat.  Drives me batty.
And of course that is just one tidbit - pretty much every tidbit thrown around about this topic is bull.



Yes, and the fact that they are "illegal" when it's a basic human right to seek asylum in another country when your life is being threatened in your own.
And the myth that they come here and get all these handouts from the government such as houses, cars, wads of cash and it's just not true. They come here in fear for their lives, they are treated like sh*t, and given no more than someone on unemployment benefits.
We have such a big wonderful country that's practically empty, and we should be saying "Come in, you're safe here, no one will hurt you now".

#11 *cough*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (3Keiki @ 06/01/2013, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How about that having some appearance of affluence means you are arrogant...


This!


#12 Sue Heck

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

Can you point me in the direction of the association between criminality and prematurity. I have relative who was working in juvenile justice when my daughter was born prematurely and he said there was a link but that is the first time I have heard it again.

Congratulations on your masters.

#13 Bluemakede

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE (sarkazm76 @ 06/01/2013, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Boat People.  That "they" are a huge problem and there are sooo many of them..... when in actual fact there are more people here from illegally overstaying their visas then people arrived illegally by boat.  Drives me batty.
And of course that is just one tidbit - pretty much every tidbit thrown around about this topic is bull.


This, every time I hear people go on about "illegals" it makes me want to smack my head against the wall. Or the "they must have lots of money to have paid to get on the boat". And well yeah pretty much everything about this topic and refugee's in general.

#14 *cough*

Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE (Helen Magnus @ 06/01/2013, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can you point me in the direction of the association between criminality and prematurity. I have relative who was working in juvenile justice when my daughter was born prematurely and he said there was a link but that is the first time I have heard it again.

Congratulations on your masters.


Thanks.

Can I caveat (again!) this comment by saying that the lists are very much like a shopping list - no one thing means a someone will be a criminal. Check out Welsh & Olds (writing together) who talk about disadvantage of the early years of life.

Here's a bit of a list cut from my notes.

QUOTE
Child Factors – Prematurity, low birth weight, disability, low intelligence, poor attachment, aggressive behaviours, impulsivity control.

Family Factors – pre-natal, criminality, single mother, single mum, DV, large family size, unemployment, parenting style, inconsistent discipline, neglect.

School context – school failure, peer rejection, poor behaviour management, normative beliefs about aggression, suspension, expulsion numbers.

Life events – divorce and family break up, war or natural disasters, death of a family member.

Community and cultural factors – urban area (not agreed), density of housing, portrayal of violence.

Risk is cumulative – it is the combination of the risk factors that are predictive.

Risk is not destiny.


I tick about 70% of that list and I am far from a criminal. This type of research is very debated. So please don't be offended by it.

There needs to be a lot more longditudinal studies to give us better answers.

You might also want to read

Cambridge Study of Delinquent Development.

Samson and Low – studies. Life in the Making 1993.

Campbell Collaboration - systematic review of raw data.

Hil, R (2000) Governing Through Risk, Children Australia.

Bourgois, P, In search of Respect – selling crack in El Barrio – Cambridge University Press. 1995.

David Kenneday – John Jay College – Stop Don’t Kill me. (premise it will take generations to change the global structural reforms).

Don't Shoot: One Man, A Street Fellowship, and the End of Violence in Inner-City America [Hardcover]

Edited by *cough*, 06 January 2013 - 09:46 PM.


#15 tinkster23

Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

I'm a paeds nurse, I see people post SO many things that are just wrong, I try to only speak up when they are giving dangèrous advice, mostly cos I'd go nuts trying to correct all the misinformation.

#16 Leggy

Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:31 PM

Yeah, boat people is the one that really gets my goat. That and people who breezily declare that you should just stay home if it's not safe to go out at night and if you do go out, then it's your fault if you're assaulted, and things of that ilk. Because you know, it TOTALLY makes sense that I should no longer have the right to be safely out in the community because someone might breach that right...like saying I should give up the right to own things because someone might steal them :S

(I should add, I'm not talking about common sense "I wouldn't go there after dark", I mean people who think that's the whole answer to the problem.)

#17 Feral Mozzie

Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

That the RBA sets interest rates to punish or reward "working families" with mortgages.

Also, I hate it when the media and individuals assume that interest rates up = 'bad' and down = 'good'. There are a significant number of people/groups in society that benefit from interest rate increases - but they are not usually "working families".

Also, what the h*ll is a working family anyway?

#18 snuffles

Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

Argh the 'boat people' thing definitely.  Comments like, "I'm against the boat people" - I mean, WTF does that mean??  Where do I even start explaining what is wrong with that?  Sometimes it is so much easier to say nothing at all.

And basic biology errors, like, my fat is turning to muscle, or, if you eat too much sugar you'll become a diabetic...



#19 rosie28

Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:49 PM

This happns to me all the time - I'm a lawyer (commercial) who did a Criminology major. The sheer volume of material people can get wrong, all the while insisting that they're right, floors me. The death penalty, Koori Courts (why should they have their own court, I don't have my own court...um, yes, yes you do!), how basic contracts work, what VCAT is for, immigration policy and law, the list is literally never ending!

#20 Lady Lovely Locks

Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:59 PM

QUOTE
Boat People. That "they" are a huge problem and there are sooo many of them..... when in actual fact there are more people here from illegally overstaying their visas then people arrived illegally by boat. Drives me batty.
And of course that is just one tidbit - pretty much every tidbit thrown around about this topic is bull.


YES!!!!
I think a big problem is that the general public has no idea/no interest in the number of civil wars that have been waged over the last 40 years, millions of displaced people just trying to find a decent life when the governments have abandoned them, or actively sought to "eliminate"  them. We are a water bound continent, and have such a small problem with illegal immigrants comparing to other western first world countries.....

#21 noi'mnot

Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

"So you married a Muslim, why doesn't he make you wear a veil?"

"Peer review is a load of crap - of course the reviewers agree, they're the authors' peers, and peer is another word for friend!"

The ill-informed use of epidemiology to justify, simplify or explain what are actually very complex and dynamic health issues.

Homeopathy. 'Tis bullsh*t.

ETA: And absolutely yes to the "boat people" debate! Illegal my left butt cheek!!!

Edited by noi'mnot, 07 January 2013 - 03:02 PM.


#22 Quaintrelle

Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

QUOTE (*cough* @ 06/01/2013, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nothing gets me more ranty then someone saying criminals should be locked up and the key thrown away... I am a strong believer in rehabilitation and think it is one of the main downfalls of our criminal justice system.


Does any rehab actually take place in prisons? All I hear about is criminal behaviour that is constantly punishes but continues to escalate.

#23 Leggy

Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

Oh lordy, homeopathy.

And the whole "climate change is a conspiracy by the scientists" thing - seriously, wtf? The whole effing point of science is to try to find out what's real, and have you seen what happens to a researcher found to be falsifying data?

#24 rosie28

Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

I hear you on both counts Leggy!

#25 secret~sammy

Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

You can prove anything with statistics .....

(With a side order of media reports that claim conclusions that the reasearchers never did if you look at the published paper)




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Special Ticket Offer, Save $8!

The Essential Baby & Toddler Show is back this April! Save $8 off the door price for a limited time only!

Finding baby name inspiration in unusual places

Sometimes the greatest baby name ideas come from the most unexpected places, as these EB members show.

The case for inducing at 37 weeks

While we often think of pregnancy as a 40 week affair, experts agree that 37 weeks is actually “full term". So is there an argument for inducing all births at 37 weeks?

Does controlled crying really work?

Controlled-crying techniques may help some babies sleep through the night, but for many exhausted new parents, it's just a recipe for more tears all round.

How I taught my infant to use a toilet

As people become more aware of these benefits, I hope more parents will practice this method, so we can cut down on nappies and improve baby bonding.

'I thought it was impossible': Emily Symons pregnant at 45

Aussie actress Emily Symons has announced she is pregnant with her first baby.

Shallow water blackout kills fit, healthy dad

A little girl will grow up without her father after the fit and healthy 34-year-old passed away while doing something he had practised his whole life.

Afternoon naps may be bad for toddlers' sleep

You could be doing yourself a disservice by encouraging your toddler to have an afternoon nap, according to new research.

Best gifts for newborns, new mums and christenings

We've compiled a guide to some of the most popular presents for newborns and new mums, and for christenings and naming days.

Jaime King to be a mum again

Actress Jaime King is pregnant with her second child, giving 16-month-old James a sibling.

Nannies should receive government funding

The Abbott government should extend funding to nannies, and direct childcare payments to low and middle income families, a landmark study on childcare has found. 

Common skin irritations in newborns (and how to treat them)

As many as one in two newborn babies suffer from skin irritations in their first few weeks. So what are the most common rashes and irritations to look out for?

10 wall decals for the nursery or playroom

Wall decals are the answer to creating a beautiful nursery or children's space without lifting a paint brush, a spirit level or even a hammer.

Preschooler walks 2.4km home alone

Three-year-old Cain Trainor headed off home after his first day at a new preschool without telling anyone.

Video: Why mums get nothing done

In spite of being in an almost constant state of motion while looking after the kids and trying to keep things together at home, it can seem as though parents have managed to get nothing on the to-do list done by the end of the day.

The middle name game

The middle name is no longer an afterthought, and parents' inspiration comes from many places.

Have a baby or your money back - but there's a catch

A new IVF scheme offers couples the chance to fall pregnant and give birth - or get their money back. But there's more to it than you might think.

A rare glimpse inside the womb

A baby born still inside the amniotic sac gave US doctors a rare glimpse at life inside the womb.

Battered mum forced to write to her attacker ex in jail

Three years ago Jason Hughes viciously attacked his ex-partner. Now she has to write to him three times a year.

Woman pleads not guilty to ultrasound scam

A West Australian woman will fight allegations that she scammed expectant mums by selling them fake ultrasound pictures of babies.

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Brain damaged mum receives compensation

A Sydney mother who suffered brain damage when she was hit by a car while pushing her newborn baby in a pram has reached a confidential out-of-court settlement with the driver's insurance company.

Indigenous midwives break down the barriers

A culturally sensitive midwifery service has gained the trust and respect of Aboriginal women.

The Katering Show's next big delivery

Most mums-to-be plan to take things easy and perhaps have a little break from work as the birth of their baby draws near. Not Kate McCartney.

53 creative pregnancy announcements

Announcing that you're expecting can be a time to express your creativity, sense of humour and imagination. Check out how other parents and parents-to-be have broken the news to friends and family.

Why I have mixed feelings about Cindy Crawford's leaked photo

Last week an un-retouched photo of model Cindy Crawford surfaced, showing the 48-year-old mother-of -two posing in underwear.

How to create a Peppa Pig pancake

Thought your toddler could not love pancakes any more than they already do? How about if the breakfast treat came in the shape of every two-year-old's favourite cartoon character?

'It's a little life, not a little loss': pregnancy after miscarriage

I thought I was never going to be able to have a successful pregnancy. I decided that I wasn't going to form an emotional attachment with this baby.

Bonds Baby Search 2015: what you need to know

February 18 marks the start of one of the most prolific annual baby competitions in Australia: the Bonds Baby Search. And this year is going to be more special than ever.

Who will manage your Facebook account when you're gone?

This is not something that people like to talk about, but Facebook has announced that it will grant users more control over what happens to their pages after they die.

Struggling mum of four wins $188 million

Mother of four Marie Holmes was financially struggling after quitting her jobs at Walmart and McDonald's in order to care for her children.

Pregnant obese women a 'relatively new problem', coroner hears

A first-time mother whose daughter died hours after her frightening birth insists she was never told of the risks of being obese and pregnant.

'I'm angry as hell': the story behind mum's passionate vaccination plea

She has labelled parents who do not vaccinate their children "misinformed imbeciles" - and for that, she makes no apologies.

IKEA hacks for the nursery and kids' rooms

Are you one of those that know the whole IKEA catalogue by heart? Love their stuff but want to personalise it? Here's some inspiration to help you realise the potential of IKEA furniture and fittings.

8 different kinds of tantrums

I never thought I’d say this, but for a brief moment last week, Kim Kardashian and I had something in common: both our kids had public tantrums.

Polycystic ovary syndrome: symptoms, treatment and your fertility

Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) is the most common female hormonal condition, affecting roughly one in 12 Australian women.

What's the best position for giving birth?

If doing it on your back is out, what's the best position for labour and birth?

Wife forgives snake catcher husband for car surprise

With Valentine's Day coming up, Nat Gilbert could be forgiven for thinking her husband might be planning a surprise for her.

Kids who meet milestones at their own pace

We usually only hear the success stories: tales of the two-year-old who’s talking, running and completely toilet trained. But other stories need to be told too.

Ruby shines as Bonds Baby

Sarah Kiss has a word of advice for proud mums and dads who are keen to enter their babies in this year's Bonds Baby Search Competition - just have fun.

Why dads should go to sleep school

If your family needs to go to sleep school, go with them. You are part of that family and you are part of the solution.

36 baby names inspired by food and drinks

A French court may have ruled out Nutella as a baby name, but that doesn't have to stop you from taking inspiration from the supermarket (or bottle shop). See what parents in the US have chosen for their delicious little ones.

Clever breastfeeding products

Check out this range of products designed to help make your breastfeeding journey more enjoyable, manageable and convenient.

 

Win a KitchenAid Mixer

Let's celebrate 300,000 fans on Facebook

To celebrate, and to thank our amazing fans, we?re giving away a KitchenAid Artisan Tilt-Head Stand Mixer.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.