Jump to content

Gifted children Parliamentary Enquiry


  • Please log in to reply
93 replies to this topic

#1 kadoodle

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/...1219-2bn68.html

I'm torn between shouting "well, der!" at the computer and crying.  I always hoped that the education of gifted children was less of a desert than when I was a kid.  Obviously not.  sad.gif

#2 IsolaBella

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Derr was my thought too.

#3 PrincessPeach

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:37 PM

They've only just now thought to study this???

Remind me however not to show my mum - she will loose the plot, she has been pushing for this for years.

#4 JustBeige

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

...and they needed a parliamentary enquiry to find this out.

I think this is appropriate wacko.gif

#5 somila

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

There have been parliamentary enquiries into giftedness in Qld before but I haven't seen big changes "on the ground".  Differentiation within classes seems to be flavour-of-the-month ATM.  Having said that our local state school is allocating spelling books according to tested levels rather than age/year level, so I guess that's a start.
Highly/exceptionally/profoundly gifted children are always going to need an individualised program and will have trouble finding like-minded peers in a mainstream school.  I suspect most of the children in selective schools are not in these categories.


#6 leisamd

Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

Thanks for posting, very interesting!  

Here's the report if anyone's interested:

http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/st...inal_Report.pdf

#7 BlondieUK

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

I fully support the need for schools to do a better job with gifted students. However, the hyperbole that says they need the support as much as disabled children" I find that very hard to stomach. Their ability to learn is not compromised - they do have the ability to gain something, however small from the education system as it stands. Children whose ability to learn is even moderately impaired have extreme difficulty functioning in a mainstream school. The needs are entirely different, but extending a gifted child is much easier than accessing any kind of decent education for disabled children.

I'm sure others will disagree, but that's my experience as a parent of a disabled child, and as a teacher of both ends of the spectrum.

#8 TheMuriels

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:43 PM

Actually, gifted children quite often have their learning ability impaired... due to many factors.



#9 jojonbeanie

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:54 PM

I have one extremely gifted child and one extremely disabled child. Trust me there is no comparison. I know which side of the bell curve I would rather be.

#10 minus

Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:23 AM

no longer want to comment

Edited by minus, 21 December 2012 - 12:42 AM.


#11 BlondieUK

Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:31 AM

QUOTE (TheMuriels @ 20/12/2012, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, gifted children quite often have their learning ability impaired... due to many factors.


I am aware of this - and the needs of a such children are even more individual (if that is not a complete oxymoron!). Gifted children, too, suffer from the social isolation that the other end of the spectrum brings - however, their ability to function in everyday tasks and lifeskills does not tend to be so impaired. Yes, I am talking in generalisations, but so is the report.

Don't get me wrong - fully support the need for all teachers and schools to do more than teach to one level. Differentiation is the key and it's a skill that not enough schools place enough emphasis on.


#12 kadoodle

Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:30 AM

As someone who has worked primarily with students at the PMLD end of the scale, the notion that students with disabilities get funding thrown at them left, right and centre is just demented and ignorant.

Rather than drawing comparisons, I think that funding and training for it's own sake - to allow the greatest possible outcomes for gifted children - is a better argument to make.  The "you get so much, we get nuffin" argument does both sets of learners a disservice and shows a massive lack of empathy and lack of knowledge by teachers and parents of gifted students.

I was a gifted child.  My school years were a misery.  But I would never have wanted my betterment to come at the expense of someone else's  loss.

#13 Beancat

Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:46 AM

Hi is there a gifted thread on EB or a good online forum for parents of gifted children?  After a very interesting year at 3 yo kinder my son has had a preliminary diagnosis of gifted and will be doing an individual program at 4 yo kinder next  year.  One of my questions is how were other people's children diagnosed as gifted?  We have been told he cannot formally be diagnosed until 5 when he will undergo an IQ test.

#14 kwiggle

Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:57 AM

What a good reply Kadoodle - so true.

I went to a big government school and spent most of high school roaming the corridors because I was too disruptive in class and the teachers had no idea what to do with me.  The first time anyone ever addressed my learning needs was year 11, when a new English teacher arrived and worked out that I had learned nothing in 4 years.  She showed me that having read every book in the storeroom meant I was a good reader, not a good scholar.  She ensured I could function at uni by the time I left, didn't compare me to other students and taught me to strive to be "the best version of me I could be". What an educator.

The sad reality is that if I hadn't come across a wonderful teacher my life may have been very different & less successful.  If there are any programs that don't rely on such a random encounter to address the needs of kids who aren't average learners they should be encouraged.

After my haphazard education I am very worried that my state has introduced a blanket rule about school starting age and DS will be in the older cohort for his year.  Why hasn't the education system worked out that rigid rules don't meet the needs of individual students?

#15 baddmammajamma

Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:22 AM

QUOTE (Beancat @ 21/12/2012, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi is there a gifted thread on EB or a good online forum for parents of gifted children?  After a very interesting year at 3 yo kinder my son has had a preliminary diagnosis of gifted and will be doing an individual program at 4 yo kinder next  year.  One of my questions is how were other people's children diagnosed as gifted?  We have been told he cannot formally be diagnosed until 5 when he will undergo an IQ test.


Yes there is a G&T group for parents of kids in primary, but often, parents of younger kids take part:
http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/forums/ind...howtopic=981014

Also, try the Davidson Gifted Forums for age specific discussion (here's the preschool one):
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/...Pre_school.html

Beancat, although it's unusual to test a 2 or 3 year old, it can be done. My daughter was first tested shortly after her 4th birthday (with the WPPSI-III, which I believe targets kids in the 2.5 to 7+ range) and then again with the SB-V when she was just under the age of 6.






#16 whatnamenow

Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:36 AM

Try having a gifted child with a physical impairment!  That blows their mind and they are never sure what to do with her.  As a result they dont do anything.  I thank God in a way that her disability means she is eligible for a program in high school that combines standard high school with distance ed.  She can accelerate where she wants to.  Yippee!

Although i will agree with PP. The barriers to a disabled child learning are incomparible to the barriers facing a gifted child.  At the very least a gifted child doesnt have to worry about getting into the classroom.  2 years ago my DD's school put her in a classroom with stairs.  Then scratched their heads the first day she had to come to school in her wheelchair.

#17 PrincessPeach

Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:40 AM

QUOTE (Beancat @ 21/12/2012, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi is there a gifted thread on EB or a good online forum for parents of gifted children?  After a very interesting year at 3 yo kinder my son has had a preliminary diagnosis of gifted and will be doing an individual program at 4 yo kinder next  year.  One of my questions is how were other people's children diagnosed as gifted?  We have been told he cannot formally be diagnosed until 5 when he will undergo an IQ test.


My brother, cousins & myself were all diagnosed with an IQ test after we turned 5. The only time any of us were extended at school was in either instrumental music programs or sports programs & myself in mathematics in highschool.

The biggest problem at school I found is that because you are not extended, you never have to study because everything comes soo easily, so when you finally come accross something that is a challenge & requires study (in my case, university), you don't have the skills that a non-academically gifted student has learnt in primary school or high school to fall back on.

If you also look at my brother's grades at school you would never know his IQ is over 150 - he was just so board out of his brains he tuned out & as a result never reached his full potential.

#18 baddmammajamma

Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:43 AM

QUOTE (BlondieUK @ 21/12/2012, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I fully support the need for schools to do a better job with gifted students. However, the hyperbole that says they need the support as much as disabled children" I find that very hard to stomach. Their ability to learn is not compromised - they do have the ability to gain something, however small from the education system as it stands. Children whose ability to learn is even moderately impaired have extreme difficulty functioning in a mainstream school. The needs are entirely different, but extending a gifted child is much easier than accessing any kind of decent education for disabled children.

I'm sure others will disagree, but that's my experience as a parent of a disabled child, and as a teacher of both ends of the spectrum.



QUOTE (jojonbeanie @ 21/12/2012, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have one extremely gifted child and one extremely disabled child. Trust me there is no comparison. I know which side of the bell curve I would rather be.



QUOTE (kadoodle @ 21/12/2012, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As someone who has worked primarily with students at the PMLD end of the scale, the notion that students with disabilities get funding thrown at them left, right and centre is just demented and ignorant.

Rather than drawing comparisons, I think that funding and training for it's own sake - to allow the greatest possible outcomes for gifted children - is a better argument to make.  The "you get so much, we get nuffin" argument does both sets of learners a disservice and shows a massive lack of empathy and lack of knowledge by teachers and parents of gifted students.


As a gifted person and a the mother of a gifted child (who also has special needs), I concur with all of the points above.

I used to be active in a bunch of gifted forums, and I've scaled back in part because of the underlying sentiment of "Special needs kids get everything" and the inappropriate attempts to draw a parallel between giftedness and special needs/disabiliities" (from the op-ed piece "There is not the understanding that they are at the other end of the normal curve and they need as much help as children at the other end.'')

I think kadoodle's approach is much more sensible.

Edited by baddmammajamma, 21 December 2012 - 09:29 AM.


#19 WinterIsComing

Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

QUOTE (BlondieUK @ 21/12/2012, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I fully support the need for schools to do a better job with gifted students. However, the hyperbole that says they need the support as much as disabled children" I find that very hard to stomach. Their ability to learn is not compromised - they do have the ability to gain something, however small from the education system as it stands. Children whose ability to learn is even moderately impaired have extreme difficulty functioning in a mainstream school. The needs are entirely different, but extending a gifted child is much easier than accessing any kind of decent education for disabled children.

I'm sure others will disagree, but that's my experience as a parent of a disabled child, and as a teacher of both ends of the spectrum.


I agree with this post.

I say it as a former gifted child, married to a highly gifted man. Due to a tangle of varied circumstances (mostly due to social/economic positions of our families during that stage), nothing much eventuated out of our giftedness during school years, but in the end, both of us ended up doing well in our professional lives. We are naturally smart and that smartness has carried us far in the corporate world. Surely, with certain support, we could have explored our respective potentials a bit further, but there is no research correlating giftedness with success in life. Rather, it is a combination of your birth circumstances and the effort that you have put in somewhere along the line.

Disabled people, I suspect, don't fare as well as cognitively gifted. They need 10x more support just to get to the even plane with the rest of the population. So what if a gifted child doesn't get the support they need to be extra special/successful? Parents of children with learning disabilities just hope for them to be average.

Now, in economic terms, perhaps putting that extra effort into gifted children could pay off - I am thinking raising our scientific and entrepreneurial profile as a country - however, I doubt that any part of our policy planning as strategic as that. If someone does think of that, the money should come from outside the education budget, possibly.

ETA: DH had a learning impairment, too, to go with his giftedness.

Edited by WinterIsComing, 21 December 2012 - 09:17 AM.


#20 baddmammajamma

Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:23 AM

WinterIsComing:

To expand upon your post, the Davidson Institute For Talent Development in the U.S. supports the needs of profoundly gifted kids -- including the establishment of an academy for the profoundly gifted. It is a non profit organization, initially founded and underwritten by a couple (Bob & Jan Davidson) who felt that the most gifted children in the U.S. were being underserved.

http://www.davidsongifted.org/Article/About_Us_318.aspx

They have a terrific support & mentorship program called the "Davidson Young Scholars," that provides support and mentorship and educational opportunities for kids up until age 18. If we were living back in the U.S., I definitely would want my daughter to take part.
http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/

They offer generous fellowships for children who have completed a significant piece of work in Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics, Literature, Music, Philosophy and "Outside the Box" Thinking:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/fellows/

And they offer summer "think" programs, where high schoolers can earn college/uni credits:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/think/

Wouldn't it be fabulous if some of the mega-wealthy business people in AUSTRALIA could help fund something innovative like this in our country?




#21 Jane Jetson

Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (kadoodle @ 21/12/2012, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As someone who has worked primarily with students at the PMLD end of the scale, the notion that students with disabilities get funding thrown at them left, right and centre is just demented and ignorant.

Rather than drawing comparisons, I think that funding and training for it's own sake - to allow the greatest possible outcomes for gifted children - is a better argument to make.  The "you get so much, we get nuffin" argument does both sets of learners a disservice and shows a massive lack of empathy and lack of knowledge by teachers and parents of gifted students.


I agree - well said.

QUOTE (kadoodle @ 21/12/2012, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was a gifted child.  My school years were a misery.  But I would never have wanted my betterment to come at the expense of someone else's  loss.


Same here. And certainly my experience makes me wonder whether extra funding for gifted children is the best or only approach: I went to two primary schools, one large and progressive, and which extended me wonderfully; and one small and small-minded, with a culture of bullying anyone who didn't fit in.

I could never understand why, at my second school and later, high school, children who were exceptional were singled out and praised, and extended, and popular - if their ability lay in the direction of sport. If their ability was academic (and if, for example, they'd already done the Year Four work in Years Two and Three thanks to being extended, and were bored sh*tless) they were told they were no big deal, that they had to do the same duncework as the other kids, and that it was perfectly okay to bully them for wanting to learn.

I would like to see the same accolades and encouragement currently given to sporting ability given to children who are gifted in more academic areas. Sadly this would probably need to address some deep-seated issues in society, so it's probably about as realistic as getting mainstream schools to actually cater for both gifted children, and those with SN at the other end of the spectrum.

(I have no idea if my kids are gifted. I'm pretty sure one has ADHD, and our slow progression in diagnosis is looking that way.)

Edited because my gifts clearly deserted me at some point and I can no longer construct a valid sentence.

Edited by Jane Jetson, 21 December 2012 - 10:39 AM.


#22 WinterIsComing

Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:06 AM

QUOTE (baddmammajamma @ 21/12/2012, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WinterIsComing:

To expand upon your post, the Davidson Institute For Talent Development in the U.S. supports the needs of profoundly gifted kids -- including the establishment of an academy for the profoundly gifted. It is a non profit organization, initially founded and underwritten by a couple (Bob & Jan Davidson) who felt that the most gifted children in the U.S. were being underserved.

http://www.davidsongifted.org/Article/About_Us_318.aspx

They have a terrific support & mentorship program called the "Davidson Young Scholars," that provides support and mentorship and educational opportunities for kids up until age 18. If we were living back in the U.S., I definitely would want my daughter to take part.
http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/

They offer generous fellowships for children who have completed a significant piece of work in Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics, Literature, Music, Philosophy and "Outside the Box" Thinking:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/fellows/

And they offer summer "think" programs, where high schoolers can earn college/uni credits:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/think/

Wouldn't it be fabulous if some of the mega-wealthy business people in AUSTRALIA could help fund something innovative like this in our country?


To be honest, I sincerely doubt it would happen. One needs to have a look at the very wealthy in our country, Gina Reinheart or Rupert Murdoch come to mind. Zero personal integrity, mega greed and would stop at nothing to get that little bit extra wealthy. For all its problems, US is still the hot bed of the progressive thinking and high profile philanthropists. I remember reading about one who was involved in projects in Australia!!



#23 WinterIsComing

Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:06 AM

QUOTE (baddmammajamma @ 21/12/2012, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WinterIsComing:

To expand upon your post, the Davidson Institute For Talent Development in the U.S. supports the needs of profoundly gifted kids -- including the establishment of an academy for the profoundly gifted. It is a non profit organization, initially founded and underwritten by a couple (Bob & Jan Davidson) who felt that the most gifted children in the U.S. were being underserved.

http://www.davidsongifted.org/Article/About_Us_318.aspx

They have a terrific support & mentorship program called the "Davidson Young Scholars," that provides support and mentorship and educational opportunities for kids up until age 18. If we were living back in the U.S., I definitely would want my daughter to take part.
http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/

They offer generous fellowships for children who have completed a significant piece of work in Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics, Literature, Music, Philosophy and "Outside the Box" Thinking:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/fellows/

And they offer summer "think" programs, where high schoolers can earn college/uni credits:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/think/

Wouldn't it be fabulous if some of the mega-wealthy business people in AUSTRALIA could help fund something innovative like this in our country?


To be honest, I sincerely doubt it would happen. One needs to have a look at the very wealthy in our country, Gina Reinheart or Rupert Murdoch come to mind. Zero personal integrity, mega greed and would stop at nothing to get that little bit extra wealthy. For all its problems, US is still the hot bed of the progressive thinking and high profile philanthropists. I remember reading about one who was involved in projects in Australia!!



#24 BlondieUK

Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

QUOTE (Jane Jetson @ 21/12/2012, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would like to see the same accolades and encouragement currently given to sporting ability given to children who are gifted in more academic areas. Sadly this would probably need to address some deep-seated issues in society, so it's probably about as realistic as getting mainstream schools to actually cater for both gifted children, and those with SN at the other end of the spectrum.


As a (former) professional musician, I know that I got wonderful support from the music staff. Because I was non-sporting (although not non-athletic IYKWIM) some teachers would actively denigrate me in front of other students. It's cultural - it's deep seated and I have no idea what we can do to shift our values. Other than, as a teacher, promote and support excellence in all fields. Critical thinking, to me, is the key skill.


#25 *LucyE*

Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

QUOTE
QUOTE
Wouldn't it be fabulous if some of the mega-wealthy business people in AUSTRALIA could help fund something innovative like this in our country?

To be honest, I sincerely doubt it would happen. One needs to have a look at the very wealthy in our country, Gina Reinheart or Rupert Murdoch come to mind. Zero personal integrity, mega greed and would stop at nothing to get that little bit extra wealthy.

That's not quite accurate. The Australian government hasn't always supported private philanthropic endeavors unlike the US. The assumption here is that the 'government' should do it whereas in the US it is more that the private sector should do it. Although I accept that it does take a certain amount of generosity to start, it is not always done with purely altruistic motives. There are perks for the benefactor too. When JH tried to bring in changes that would encourage private philanthropy in Australia, he was attacked for trying to weasel out of his governments responsibility. It doesn't have to be either or. It can be a mixture of both.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

The myths and truths of gender swaying

Here are a few popular methods hopeful parents-to-be use to try to get a baby of their preferred gender – and what an expert says about whether they really work.

10 easy DIY Christmas decoration ideas

It's officially time to get into the Christmas spirit. Why not branch out when you put up your tree this year and add a personal touch with a few DIY decorations? We've found the perfect easy-to-make ways to put more festive fever into your home.

The dangerous new trend of glucose challenge test refusal

A dangerous trend is seeing more mothers-to-be declining a relatively simple and painless test to check for gestational diabetes.

Office of Fair Trading reveals naughty toys ahead of Christmas

The Office of Fair Trading has pulled seven toys from shelves ahead of Christmas after they fail safety tests.

Video: Baby boy's trouble with twins

These twin girls will no doubt have fun fooling people in years to come, but nobody will be as confused as baby Landon.

Long-term reversible male contraceptive on its way

Men could soon have access to an injectable long-term contraceptive which works in a similar way to a vasectomy but promises to be easily reversed.

'I tried to kill my baby': one mum's story

After bathing and dressing her three-month-old son, Amanda had a rare moment alone with her baby.

Attack of the 'mummy brain'

I feel that almost every day, someone in my life - be they a friend, family member or complete stranger - feels the need to excuse my behaviour as I have other things on my mind.

Mum of baby who fell ill after drinking raw milk speaks out

A Melbourne mother has described how her son turned grey when he became seriously ill after drinking raw milk.

Australian divorce rate lowest since 1976

Modern newlyweds are now well into their 30s and marriage still offers something powerful a new book argues.

The aftermath of a traumatic birth experience

In Australia, 30 per cent of women find their birth experience traumatic, with 6 per cent going on to develop post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

Young mum burns 'from inside-out'

A young mum is in intensive care after she took a friend's antibiotic and wound up with an ailment that is burning her body 'from the inside-out'.

The disagreement that can break a relationship

If he doesn't change his mind, all I can hope is that I will. It would be a waste to spend the rest of my marriage mourning a baby that never was.

Co-sleeping or no-sleeping? Mum videos worst nap ever

One mother's futile attempt to sleep in caught on camera in a hilarious - and very cute - video.

Why children misbehave during the festive season

While we all like to imagine the holiday season as being a fun, loving and bonding experience; often our reality is quiet different.

I was fat-shamed by my doctor

The fear of being weighed is the most significant factor in women cancelling medical appointments - and now weight-shaming has happened to me.

End of an era: no more childcare

As we reach the end of 2014, we're closing the book on many things for another year, most notably childcare. Our last child has attended childcare for the very last time.

The 7-year itch is more like the 10-year itch: study

Contrary to popular belief, making it past the seven-year mark doesn't mean your marriage will be smooth sailing from there on.

Stop telling us that parenting gets harder

I’m sure that parenting will get harder. But life isn’t exactly smooth sailing for many of us right now, either.

Should children be forced to sit on Santa's lap?

We teach kids it’s okay to say no if they don’t feel safe, so why do some parents force their children to climb in to Santa's lap?

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Baby born weighing almost 14 pounds

Yes, the bouncing baby girl was born by caesarean section. And mum says no more kids.

The dummy debate

I'm the first to admit that when I used to see tiny babies with dummies in their mouths, I thought "Hmm, lazy parenting." And now I apologise.

'I thought I was an only child'

Imagine meeting your double at a school sports event, or regularly being mistaken for someone you haven't met. Separated twins Margaret and Joy tell their story.

Mums reveal their nappy bag essentials

Ever wondered what other mums carry in their nappy bags? We have, so we asked mums to tell us their must-have nappy bag items.

Toddler died because he wasn't given antibiotics soon enough

A 15-month-old boy would almost certainly be alive today if doctors had given him antibiotics sooner, a coroner has ruled.

VIDEO: moment a toddler falls on to train tracks in Melbourne

Shocking footage has emerged capturing the moment a pram carrying a toddler rolled off a platform and onto train tracks in suburban Melbourne.

Sold on natural birth? Read the fine print

In the excitement and anticipation of a first pregnancy, I ignored the fine print: some women, some of the time.

Child with alcoholic mum who drank while pregnant won't win pay-out

A young child is not entitled to criminal injuries compensation after her mother drank excessively while pregnant.

Superbugs killing India's babies, posing wider threat

A deadly epidemic that could have global implications is quietly sweeping India, tens of thousands of newborns dying because antibiotics no longer work.

Can you teach a toddler to sleep in?

Parents share their tips on getting their early risers to sleep in, even for just a little bit longer.

Keeping your relationship on track as new parents

About 70 per cent of couples experience a slump in their relationship within three years of having a baby. Here's how we tried to get back on track.

America's favourite baby names of 2014

Americans are turning to television, Netflix and sports for ideas for what to name their wee ones.

Carers admit to force-feeding children

As Sydney grieves the loss of Sydney siege victims Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson, reports have suggested that both died as heroes.

 

How many weeks til Christmas?

On your To-Do list

Get the "Santa" shopping done without the kids in tow.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.