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Quit work & live on FTB
hypothetical only!


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#1 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:35 AM

Just out of curiosity I went to the Centrelink estimator and put in zero for mine & DHs earnings.  Turns out, we'd get enough money just from FTB (A & B) to live on.  Things would be tight, but it would be do-able.  There would be 2 ways we could do it.

1. Sell our investments, use the profits to buy or build a house for cash.  Use the FTB to pay for our living expenses.

2.  Sell 1 investment, use the profits to build a dwelling on my father's land.  Use the FTB to pay for living expenses and  rent to my father.  In years to come the investments will start paying off so we'd eventually have a source of income.

Would you do it?  Realistically we're not going to, but I will admit the idea is kind of tempting!

Edited to add-I made a mistake with the FTB-B calculations, it wouldn't be enough to live on, even frugally.

Edited by back*again, 19 December 2012 - 01:37 PM.


#2 Madnesscraves

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:39 AM

No. The FTB can be easily removed/taken away, changed. Not ideal to rely on it unless you have no choice.

#3 CupOfCoffee

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:39 AM

I wouldn't do it (I believe if I have the capacity to support myself and my family, I should).

(For me, I would only do this if I had no choice (lost my job and couldn't get another one).

#4 ekbaby

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:41 AM

If you have investments/assets would this not affect your eligibility for FTB?

I don't think the family home is counted in asset tests but other investments would be. I am not 100% sure but if you are receiving rental income from investment properties this also counts as income for FTB purposes, even if the property is negatively geared.

#5 Ice Queen

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:43 AM

Not even remotely tempting.

#6 ekbaby

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

Also how many children do you have? I wouldn't think many families could live on FTB alone. Are you including Parenting Payment or Newstart in that?

The max rate of FTBA is around $170 per fortnight (higher for teens) per child and FTB B is around $140 pfn (same rate regardless of how many children you have).

So if you have one child that's around $160 a week, 2 kids would be $240 a week, 3 kids $325 a week.... I guess if you have lots of kids it might be more doable but FTB alone would be lucky to cover groceries plus utilities in most cases...

#7 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

QUOTE
I don't think the family home is counted in asset tests but other investments would be. I am not 100% sure but if you are receiving rental income from investment properties this also counts as income for FTB purposes, even if the property is negatively geared.


I could be wrong, but I didn't think FTB was asset tested?  In regards to the rent affecting the eligibility, it does for positively geared investments.  Currently they are negatively geared, and I'm assuming that as they become positively geared the loss in FTB would be replaced by the income from the investments.

#8 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:49 AM

QUOTE
Also how many children do you have? I wouldn't think many families could live on FTB alone. Are you including Parenting Payment or Newstart in that?


We have 6 children. I wasn't including Newstart or Parenting Payment, the figure I got out was just over $50k/year (if I did it right, I've never used the online estimator before)

#9 RiverOfDreams

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:49 AM

No.   Sooner or later you have to go back to work and it's a lot harder to find the job you want when you have been out of the work force for a stretch.

... if both DH and I were home every day we would either feel like we were in holiday mode so go out for coffee or lunch... or drive each other crazy.... either way we'd probably end up spending money on things we don't now.

#10 Lees75

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:50 AM

QUOTE (ekbaby @ 19/12/2012, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you have investments/assets would this not affect your eligibility for FTB?

I don't think the family home is counted in asset tests but other investments would be. I am not 100% sure but if you are receiving rental income from investment properties this also counts as income for FTB purposes, even if the property is negatively geared.

There is no assets test for FTB, only payments such as PPP, PPS, etc

Rental income will only impact FTB if you make a profit. If you come out even, it's like the rental doesn't exist. If you make a loss, the loss gets added back on to your taxable income to get your adjusted taxable income for FTB purposes, to ensure there is no double dipping:)

#11 ekbaby

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:51 AM

I would double check that, because I'm pretty sure the test for FTB is different for how income tax is calculated. You might be able to deduct some things from the rental income but not mortgage payments/interest. I think the rent counts as income even if it is negatively geared. The centrelink payments are supposed to help you get by not help you invest. Someone here who is an accountant would know more.

#12 Futureself

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

QUOTE (ekbaby @ 19/12/2012, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think the family home is counted in asset tests but other investments would be. I am not 100% sure but if you are receiving rental income from investment properties this also counts as income for FTB purposes, even if the property is negatively geared.

I REALLY hope this is the case - something is very wrong with the FTB set-up if it's not.

This attitude of having two able bodied, skilled adults able to work but just not wanting to is fine if you have set up your finances to support yourself to retire. Can't be bothered working so you can live off welfare, through 100% choice, is revolting. This set-up of FTB is unsustainable, I wouldn't be relying on it as your wicket to a lazy life - in 10 years it no longer exists or no longer matches the cost of living and you're stuck with out of date skills so are unemployable. Who even thinks this way?

#13 EsmeLennox

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

No! Jesus, the government provides money for people as a safety net, not as an income to live off, especially when they could be working!

Honestly, people who do this (and I do know some people do) give me the sh*ts.

a) we all have a responsibility to contribute as members of society if we are able to.
b) I wouldn't want to model that behaviour to my children.
c) relying on public funds to survive is somewhat foolhardy if you have another choice (I realise some people genuinely need to be receiving government support and have no issue with this) because you are then at the whim of policy change, which could impact on you greatly. Say we go back to the 1970s/80s model of little to no government support for families, where do you end up then? No money, no job, and your employment history is stuffed making it harder to get a job.

Government support is there for people who genuinely need it, I think the means testing needs to be harder on FTB payments, they could stop giving little bits of money to the middle class, and spend the savings where it is really needed - the genuinely low income people in our community, disability services, education, health etc.

If you could support yourself financially and not work without using government funds to do so, then fine, go for it.

Edited by Jemstar, 19 December 2012 - 07:54 AM.


#14 blueteddy

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:53 AM

Thats pretty pathetic.

#15 Stellajoy

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

Wow. Welfare nation.

#16 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:56 AM

QUOTE
No! Jesus, the government provides money for people as a safety net, not as an income to live off, especially when they could be working!


Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same about SAHMs who could work but choose not to, because with FTB they can afford to stay home?


QUOTE
I REALLY hope this is the case - something is very wrong with the FTB set-up if it's not

As per PP at the end of page 1, negative or neutral investments don't affect FTB, only positive investments do.



#17 JECJEC

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:58 AM

QUOTE (ekbaby @ 19/12/2012, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would double check that, because I'm pretty sure the test for FTB is different for how income tax is calculated. You might be able to deduct some things from the rental income but not mortgage payments/interest. I think the rent counts as income even if it is negatively geared. The centrelink payments are supposed to help you get by not help you invest. Someone here who is an accountant would know more.


No - as per the PP they just add back the loss. So if you have a taxable income of $50k including a $10k loss then they will add the $10k back and you will have a $60k income for centrelink purposes.

ie You may have $20k of rent and $30k of interest (or other expenses) to get you $10k loss they still only add back the $10k loss not the $20k rent.

Edited by JECJEC, 19 December 2012 - 08:00 AM.


#18 EsmeLennox

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:01 AM

I think the choice to have one parent at home with one parent working is a different scenario to both parents living the life of Riley off the government because they like the lifestyle.

Issues of child care,  needing a job with school friendly hours etc, etc impact on those decisions, and those decisions have to be made for the benefit of the whole family. I see that as somewhat different to actively choosing for both parents to not work.

Edited by Jemstar, 19 December 2012 - 08:03 AM.


#19 JustMum08

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:03 AM

No way! I am a single parent.
I live off Centrelink and it sucks!
It is so boring being at home all the time. And I never have much after bills, rent etc so never have money to do anything.
I can barely afford childcare. (he goes 2 days)
I'm in the process of looking for work now. But it is so hard with limited availability and lack of experience.
I hate living purely of Centrelink. Hoping to get a job asap!


#20 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE
I think the choice to have one parent at home with one parent working is a different scenario to both parents living the life of Riley off the government because they like the lifestyle.


But who is to say it is okay to have 1 SAHP provided by the government, but not 2?  Surely if you're only in it because you like the lifestyle, even if it's only 1 SAHM they should be privately funded?

#21 IVL

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:05 AM

Is this the kind of example you want to set your children, to tell them they don't need to try hard at school, to not get any satisfaction from their achievements or to develop any skilss or interests that would contribute to society.

If this is true, then the goverenment really is wasting so much money on welfare, what about the poor carers who are looking after sick children or aging relatives - this is where the goverenment should be focusing their efforts - not supporting people who are too lazy to go an work. This is just crazy and sad that people want to live like this.

#22 JRA

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

I suspect that the OP was not even considering doing this. But just making a point.

As many have also said there is no assets test for FTB A or B. Also like any business and and PAYG income expenses are netted off to determine the income for FTB. If there is a loss this is not included. So those who are saying surely if you have a IP the deductions should not be included, do your other tax deductions get included? Why would they be any different?

#23 winkywonkeydonkey

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

No. What example are you setting for your children? Become lazy and welfare dependant and get everything handed to you. Thats so wrong .

Work hard and you reap the benefits.

Sell both your investments if you are struggling but dont have a whole family dependant on FTB just because you want to .

#24 JECJEC

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

QUOTE (back*again @ 19/12/2012, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But who is to say it is okay to have 1 SAHP provided by the government, but not 2?  Surely if you're only in it because you like the lifestyle, even if it's only 1 SAHM they should be privately funded?


I agree with you on this point. I think the whole welfare system needs a major overhaul. I personally this the only "lifestyle" choice the government should fund is the old age pension and then it should be enough to be able to live life with dignity. I know it is not a popular viewpoint here.

#25 lilmissmars

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:12 AM

No I wouldn't do it.
Im a SAHM at the moment with three children and FTB just covers our rent and we use DP wages for everything else.

DP is a chef so it's very hard to find work to fit in with his job at the moment, but if given the chance for him to work part time and me to work part time that would be a dream come true.
FTB would be less if we did but both of us could share child caring better and still both contribute to society and taxes.
To me that would be ideal for our family and for both our sanity (as lucky as I am to stay home with my kids I do actually find it hard not working. My sense of worth and job skills decline the longer I'm at home IMO)




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