Jump to content

Quit work & live on FTB
hypothetical only!


  • Please log in to reply
167 replies to this topic

#1 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:35 AM

Just out of curiosity I went to the Centrelink estimator and put in zero for mine & DHs earnings.  Turns out, we'd get enough money just from FTB (A & B) to live on.  Things would be tight, but it would be do-able.  There would be 2 ways we could do it.

1. Sell our investments, use the profits to buy or build a house for cash.  Use the FTB to pay for our living expenses.

2.  Sell 1 investment, use the profits to build a dwelling on my father's land.  Use the FTB to pay for living expenses and  rent to my father.  In years to come the investments will start paying off so we'd eventually have a source of income.

Would you do it?  Realistically we're not going to, but I will admit the idea is kind of tempting!

Edited to add-I made a mistake with the FTB-B calculations, it wouldn't be enough to live on, even frugally.

Edited by back*again, 19 December 2012 - 01:37 PM.


#2 Madnesscraves

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:39 AM

No. The FTB can be easily removed/taken away, changed. Not ideal to rely on it unless you have no choice.

#3 CupOfCoffee

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:39 AM

I wouldn't do it (I believe if I have the capacity to support myself and my family, I should).

(For me, I would only do this if I had no choice (lost my job and couldn't get another one).

#4 ekbaby

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:41 AM

If you have investments/assets would this not affect your eligibility for FTB?

I don't think the family home is counted in asset tests but other investments would be. I am not 100% sure but if you are receiving rental income from investment properties this also counts as income for FTB purposes, even if the property is negatively geared.

#5 Ice Queen

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:43 AM

Not even remotely tempting.

#6 ekbaby

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

Also how many children do you have? I wouldn't think many families could live on FTB alone. Are you including Parenting Payment or Newstart in that?

The max rate of FTBA is around $170 per fortnight (higher for teens) per child and FTB B is around $140 pfn (same rate regardless of how many children you have).

So if you have one child that's around $160 a week, 2 kids would be $240 a week, 3 kids $325 a week.... I guess if you have lots of kids it might be more doable but FTB alone would be lucky to cover groceries plus utilities in most cases...

#7 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

QUOTE
I don't think the family home is counted in asset tests but other investments would be. I am not 100% sure but if you are receiving rental income from investment properties this also counts as income for FTB purposes, even if the property is negatively geared.


I could be wrong, but I didn't think FTB was asset tested?  In regards to the rent affecting the eligibility, it does for positively geared investments.  Currently they are negatively geared, and I'm assuming that as they become positively geared the loss in FTB would be replaced by the income from the investments.

#8 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:49 AM

QUOTE
Also how many children do you have? I wouldn't think many families could live on FTB alone. Are you including Parenting Payment or Newstart in that?


We have 6 children. I wasn't including Newstart or Parenting Payment, the figure I got out was just over $50k/year (if I did it right, I've never used the online estimator before)

#9 RiverOfDreams

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:49 AM

No.   Sooner or later you have to go back to work and it's a lot harder to find the job you want when you have been out of the work force for a stretch.

... if both DH and I were home every day we would either feel like we were in holiday mode so go out for coffee or lunch... or drive each other crazy.... either way we'd probably end up spending money on things we don't now.

#10 Lees75

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:50 AM

QUOTE (ekbaby @ 19/12/2012, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you have investments/assets would this not affect your eligibility for FTB?

I don't think the family home is counted in asset tests but other investments would be. I am not 100% sure but if you are receiving rental income from investment properties this also counts as income for FTB purposes, even if the property is negatively geared.

There is no assets test for FTB, only payments such as PPP, PPS, etc

Rental income will only impact FTB if you make a profit. If you come out even, it's like the rental doesn't exist. If you make a loss, the loss gets added back on to your taxable income to get your adjusted taxable income for FTB purposes, to ensure there is no double dipping:)

#11 ekbaby

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:51 AM

I would double check that, because I'm pretty sure the test for FTB is different for how income tax is calculated. You might be able to deduct some things from the rental income but not mortgage payments/interest. I think the rent counts as income even if it is negatively geared. The centrelink payments are supposed to help you get by not help you invest. Someone here who is an accountant would know more.

#12 Futureself

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

QUOTE (ekbaby @ 19/12/2012, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think the family home is counted in asset tests but other investments would be. I am not 100% sure but if you are receiving rental income from investment properties this also counts as income for FTB purposes, even if the property is negatively geared.

I REALLY hope this is the case - something is very wrong with the FTB set-up if it's not.

This attitude of having two able bodied, skilled adults able to work but just not wanting to is fine if you have set up your finances to support yourself to retire. Can't be bothered working so you can live off welfare, through 100% choice, is revolting. This set-up of FTB is unsustainable, I wouldn't be relying on it as your wicket to a lazy life - in 10 years it no longer exists or no longer matches the cost of living and you're stuck with out of date skills so are unemployable. Who even thinks this way?

#13 EsmeLennox

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

No! Jesus, the government provides money for people as a safety net, not as an income to live off, especially when they could be working!

Honestly, people who do this (and I do know some people do) give me the sh*ts.

a) we all have a responsibility to contribute as members of society if we are able to.
b) I wouldn't want to model that behaviour to my children.
c) relying on public funds to survive is somewhat foolhardy if you have another choice (I realise some people genuinely need to be receiving government support and have no issue with this) because you are then at the whim of policy change, which could impact on you greatly. Say we go back to the 1970s/80s model of little to no government support for families, where do you end up then? No money, no job, and your employment history is stuffed making it harder to get a job.

Government support is there for people who genuinely need it, I think the means testing needs to be harder on FTB payments, they could stop giving little bits of money to the middle class, and spend the savings where it is really needed - the genuinely low income people in our community, disability services, education, health etc.

If you could support yourself financially and not work without using government funds to do so, then fine, go for it.

Edited by Jemstar, 19 December 2012 - 07:54 AM.


#14 blueteddy

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:53 AM

Thats pretty pathetic.

#15 Stellajoy

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

Wow. Welfare nation.

#16 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:56 AM

QUOTE
No! Jesus, the government provides money for people as a safety net, not as an income to live off, especially when they could be working!


Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same about SAHMs who could work but choose not to, because with FTB they can afford to stay home?


QUOTE
I REALLY hope this is the case - something is very wrong with the FTB set-up if it's not

As per PP at the end of page 1, negative or neutral investments don't affect FTB, only positive investments do.



#17 JECJEC

Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:58 AM

QUOTE (ekbaby @ 19/12/2012, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would double check that, because I'm pretty sure the test for FTB is different for how income tax is calculated. You might be able to deduct some things from the rental income but not mortgage payments/interest. I think the rent counts as income even if it is negatively geared. The centrelink payments are supposed to help you get by not help you invest. Someone here who is an accountant would know more.


No - as per the PP they just add back the loss. So if you have a taxable income of $50k including a $10k loss then they will add the $10k back and you will have a $60k income for centrelink purposes.

ie You may have $20k of rent and $30k of interest (or other expenses) to get you $10k loss they still only add back the $10k loss not the $20k rent.

Edited by JECJEC, 19 December 2012 - 08:00 AM.


#18 EsmeLennox

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:01 AM

I think the choice to have one parent at home with one parent working is a different scenario to both parents living the life of Riley off the government because they like the lifestyle.

Issues of child care,  needing a job with school friendly hours etc, etc impact on those decisions, and those decisions have to be made for the benefit of the whole family. I see that as somewhat different to actively choosing for both parents to not work.

Edited by Jemstar, 19 December 2012 - 08:03 AM.


#19 JustMum08

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:03 AM

No way! I am a single parent.
I live off Centrelink and it sucks!
It is so boring being at home all the time. And I never have much after bills, rent etc so never have money to do anything.
I can barely afford childcare. (he goes 2 days)
I'm in the process of looking for work now. But it is so hard with limited availability and lack of experience.
I hate living purely of Centrelink. Hoping to get a job asap!


#20 back*again

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE
I think the choice to have one parent at home with one parent working is a different scenario to both parents living the life of Riley off the government because they like the lifestyle.


But who is to say it is okay to have 1 SAHP provided by the government, but not 2?  Surely if you're only in it because you like the lifestyle, even if it's only 1 SAHM they should be privately funded?

#21 IVL

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:05 AM

Is this the kind of example you want to set your children, to tell them they don't need to try hard at school, to not get any satisfaction from their achievements or to develop any skilss or interests that would contribute to society.

If this is true, then the goverenment really is wasting so much money on welfare, what about the poor carers who are looking after sick children or aging relatives - this is where the goverenment should be focusing their efforts - not supporting people who are too lazy to go an work. This is just crazy and sad that people want to live like this.

#22 JRA

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

I suspect that the OP was not even considering doing this. But just making a point.

As many have also said there is no assets test for FTB A or B. Also like any business and and PAYG income expenses are netted off to determine the income for FTB. If there is a loss this is not included. So those who are saying surely if you have a IP the deductions should not be included, do your other tax deductions get included? Why would they be any different?

#23 winkywonkeydonkey

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

No. What example are you setting for your children? Become lazy and welfare dependant and get everything handed to you. Thats so wrong .

Work hard and you reap the benefits.

Sell both your investments if you are struggling but dont have a whole family dependant on FTB just because you want to .

#24 JECJEC

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

QUOTE (back*again @ 19/12/2012, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But who is to say it is okay to have 1 SAHP provided by the government, but not 2?  Surely if you're only in it because you like the lifestyle, even if it's only 1 SAHM they should be privately funded?


I agree with you on this point. I think the whole welfare system needs a major overhaul. I personally this the only "lifestyle" choice the government should fund is the old age pension and then it should be enough to be able to live life with dignity. I know it is not a popular viewpoint here.

#25 lilmissmars

Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:12 AM

No I wouldn't do it.
Im a SAHM at the moment with three children and FTB just covers our rent and we use DP wages for everything else.

DP is a chef so it's very hard to find work to fit in with his job at the moment, but if given the chance for him to work part time and me to work part time that would be a dream come true.
FTB would be less if we did but both of us could share child caring better and still both contribute to society and taxes.
To me that would be ideal for our family and for both our sanity (as lucky as I am to stay home with my kids I do actually find it hard not working. My sense of worth and job skills decline the longer I'm at home IMO)




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

The myths and truths of gender swaying

Here are a few popular methods hopeful parents-to-be use to try to get a baby of their preferred gender – and what an expert says about whether they really work.

10 easy DIY Christmas decoration ideas

It's officially time to get into the Christmas spirit. Why not branch out when you put up your tree this year and add a personal touch with a few DIY decorations? We've found the perfect easy-to-make ways to put more festive fever into your home.

The dangerous new trend of glucose challenge test refusal

A dangerous trend is seeing more mothers-to-be declining a relatively simple and painless test to check for gestational diabetes.

Office of Fair Trading reveals naughty toys ahead of Christmas

The Office of Fair Trading has pulled seven toys from shelves ahead of Christmas after they fail safety tests.

Video: Baby boy's trouble with twins

These twin girls will no doubt have fun fooling people in years to come, but nobody will be as confused as baby Landon.

Long-term reversible male contraceptive on its way

Men could soon have access to an injectable long-term contraceptive which works in a similar way to a vasectomy but promises to be easily reversed.

'I tried to kill my baby': one mum's story

After bathing and dressing her three-month-old son, Amanda had a rare moment alone with her baby.

Attack of the 'mummy brain'

I feel that almost every day, someone in my life - be they a friend, family member or complete stranger - feels the need to excuse my behaviour as I have other things on my mind.

Mum of baby who fell ill after drinking raw milk speaks out

A Melbourne mother has described how her son turned grey when he became seriously ill after drinking raw milk.

Australian divorce rate lowest since 1976

Modern newlyweds are now well into their 30s and marriage still offers something powerful a new book argues.

The aftermath of a traumatic birth experience

In Australia, 30 per cent of women find their birth experience traumatic, with 6 per cent going on to develop post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

Young mum burns 'from inside-out'

A young mum is in intensive care after she took a friend's antibiotic and wound up with an ailment that is burning her body 'from the inside-out'.

The disagreement that can break a relationship

If he doesn't change his mind, all I can hope is that I will. It would be a waste to spend the rest of my marriage mourning a baby that never was.

Co-sleeping or no-sleeping? Mum videos worst nap ever

One mother's futile attempt to sleep in caught on camera in a hilarious - and very cute - video.

Why children misbehave during the festive season

While we all like to imagine the holiday season as being a fun, loving and bonding experience; often our reality is quiet different.

I was fat-shamed by my doctor

The fear of being weighed is the most significant factor in women cancelling medical appointments - and now weight-shaming has happened to me.

End of an era: no more childcare

As we reach the end of 2014, we're closing the book on many things for another year, most notably childcare. Our last child has attended childcare for the very last time.

The 7-year itch is more like the 10-year itch: study

Contrary to popular belief, making it past the seven-year mark doesn't mean your marriage will be smooth sailing from there on.

Stop telling us that parenting gets harder

I’m sure that parenting will get harder. But life isn’t exactly smooth sailing for many of us right now, either.

Should children be forced to sit on Santa's lap?

We teach kids it’s okay to say no if they don’t feel safe, so why do some parents force their children to climb in to Santa's lap?

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Baby born weighing almost 14 pounds

Yes, the bouncing baby girl was born by caesarean section. And mum says no more kids.

The dummy debate

I'm the first to admit that when I used to see tiny babies with dummies in their mouths, I thought "Hmm, lazy parenting." And now I apologise.

'I thought I was an only child'

Imagine meeting your double at a school sports event, or regularly being mistaken for someone you haven't met. Separated twins Margaret and Joy tell their story.

Mums reveal their nappy bag essentials

Ever wondered what other mums carry in their nappy bags? We have, so we asked mums to tell us their must-have nappy bag items.

Toddler died because he wasn't given antibiotics soon enough

A 15-month-old boy would almost certainly be alive today if doctors had given him antibiotics sooner, a coroner has ruled.

VIDEO: moment a toddler falls on to train tracks in Melbourne

Shocking footage has emerged capturing the moment a pram carrying a toddler rolled off a platform and onto train tracks in suburban Melbourne.

Sold on natural birth? Read the fine print

In the excitement and anticipation of a first pregnancy, I ignored the fine print: some women, some of the time.

Child with alcoholic mum who drank while pregnant won't win pay-out

A young child is not entitled to criminal injuries compensation after her mother drank excessively while pregnant.

Superbugs killing India's babies, posing wider threat

A deadly epidemic that could have global implications is quietly sweeping India, tens of thousands of newborns dying because antibiotics no longer work.

Can you teach a toddler to sleep in?

Parents share their tips on getting their early risers to sleep in, even for just a little bit longer.

Keeping your relationship on track as new parents

About 70 per cent of couples experience a slump in their relationship within three years of having a baby. Here's how we tried to get back on track.

America's favourite baby names of 2014

Americans are turning to television, Netflix and sports for ideas for what to name their wee ones.

Carers admit to force-feeding children

As Sydney grieves the loss of Sydney siege victims Katrina Dawson and Tori Johnson, reports have suggested that both died as heroes.

 

How many weeks til Christmas?

On your To-Do list

Get the "Santa" shopping done without the kids in tow.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.