Jump to content

Should the 'faith and religion' section of EB be re-branded tas 'belief systems'


  • Please log in to reply
99 replies to this topic

#1 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:38 AM

I believe it should, because apparently you aren't allowed to post anything to do with atheism in this sub-forum, yet atheists do not have a 'protected' forum of their own but must resort to the general boards, or so I have just been told by a moderator after my posts were deleted from a thread because they weren't supportive of the 'faith and religion' section as they expressed an alternative viewpoint.

I would argue that atheism is just as valid a belief system as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism or Islam etc. and if it's good enough for religious groups to have a protected sub-forum for discussion then so should atheists. Or at the very least faith and religion needs to be expanded to cover all belief systems.


Edited by Jemstar, 16 December 2012 - 10:40 AM.


#2 Expelliarmus

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:40 AM

I never saw atheism as a belief system, more as an absence of belief in deity. I would be interested to hear in what way atheism is a belief system.

Edited by howdo, 16 December 2012 - 10:41 AM.


#3 BadCat

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:46 AM

I don't consider atheism a belief system and nor would I want to see an atheist section.

However unless you were very rude I think it's disgusting that you were turfed out of the religion section.  An alternative viewpoint, respectfully delivered, is not inappropriate.

Edited by BadCat, 16 December 2012 - 10:47 AM.


#4 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:47 AM

You could argue Howdo that the belief of the absence of a deity, and faith in humanity is a belief system. Perhaps I should use the term 'secular humanist'. I realise that there is debate as to whether atheism is a belief system at all, however, I find it grossly unfair that atheists (or indeed secular humanists) cannot express an alternative viewpoint on that sub-forum yet cannot have sub-forum of their own. There is an inequity there that really rubs me the wrong way.

Do you have another suggestion for a name for the sub-forum that encompasses all viewpoints on the subject?



#5 Sif

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:48 AM

It seems to me that a lot of atheists are as zealous about their belief that there is no god or superior power to humans as any other religious group. Belief systems works for me. Also because Buddhism is primarily a philosophy, not a faith or religion.

#6 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:49 AM

dp

Edited by Jemstar, 16 December 2012 - 10:49 AM.


#7 B.feral3

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:51 AM

I read your post in the other thread before it was deleted and I completely agree with you.

#8 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:53 AM

I am not generally a zealot at all about my viewpoint, but I am very annoyed at the suggestion that you cannot have a viewpoint or express an opinion in that sub-forum if it doesn't fit with the dominant paradigm of that sub-forum.



#9 RealityBites

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

Agreed. This is a public forum and disagreement should be allowed. This shouldn't be a safe place for zealots.

#10 RichardParker

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

I think atheism is a belief system, but most atheists don't seem to share that view.

I think the belief in god or not gets discussed on EB fairly openly and fairly.  The point of the Faith and Religion thread is to allow people with faith to talk about it without every thread turning into an atheist/theist debate.  Sometimes you just want to know what to wear to a baptism without having to justify your entire faith and defend the church's history.

I don't know what your post was, OP, but I just looked at that thread and it seemed like the OP was just asking a simple question and then got lectures for supposedly shoving her religion down her sister's throat. Yet the OP was quite clear about the fact that she never did that, nor wanted to.  


#11 BadCat

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

I should add that the reason I see no need for an atheist section is that atheists don't tend to ask questions in the context of their (non) belief in the same way that religious people do.  It is common for religious folk to ask how one reconciles such and such an event with their faith.  It is almost unheard of for an atheist to ask how to reconcile an event with their atheism.

I hope that makes sense.  It does in my head.

#12 Expelliarmus

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:56 AM

I probably got stuck on One aspect just then Tounge1.gif

I just read the thread and don't think that an atheist viewpoint was unwarranted. I didn'y read what you posted, but am disappointed that it was removed due to not being about faith.

Of course it's about faith. There's another side to everything and atheism is part of the discourse around faith IMO. Lack of faith is still part of faith. I think it absolutely belongs in that forum and am disappointed it was removed.

#13 RealityBites

Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:57 AM

My post got deleted too  rolleyes.gif

*insert witty Dawkins quote re 'tolerance' here.

Edited by RealityBites, 16 December 2012 - 10:58 AM.


#14 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:00 AM

BadCat it does make sense yes, and generally I would agree. But I have been flat out told that atheism is not up for discussion in that sub-forum, which brings me to the point Howdo made about it being about faith.

#15 RichardParker

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 16/12/2012, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not generally a zealot at all about my viewpoint, but I am very annoyed at the suggestion that you cannot have a viewpoint or express an opinion in that sub-forum if it doesn't fit with the dominant paradigm of that sub-forum.

There's a whole protected forum for non-vaxers.

It's not that you can't express an opposing opinion there. We have heaps of participants in that sub-forum of different kinds of faith or beliefs and generally we get on fairly brilliantly.  Wiccans, Catholics, Buddhists, Protestants etc- its never usually an issue although we still manage to have robust debates.  Atheists participate too.  

Most of us are more than happy to engage on the more general 'why do you have faith at all when god allows bad things to happen' discussions in the General Section.  But it's nice to be able to have more in-depth discussions about specific aspects of your faith with people who also 'get' faith, without having to feel like you've got to start at the beginning and justify why a belief in an omnipotent being is not unreasonable.

#16 niggles

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

Maybe you could view those posts as being removed as being off topic rather than being removed because they presented an alternative viewpoint?

There was a re-shaping and re-naming of those boards some years ago after a bit of consultation. I think it's a contentious area that will probably need regular shuffling to try and suit the needs of the people who use them as time moves on. When they were changed, as I remember, there were regular threads about paranormal activities, psychic practices and various spiritual belief systems. These days The Crystal Ball section - which is new since then - is quiet as can be.

#17 BadCat

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:03 AM

I think it is wrong to disallow atheist viewpoints in that section.  Nobody else on EB has a section where only approved people can post as far as I know (except perhaps the trading room but that's different).

Edited by BadCat, 16 December 2012 - 11:05 AM.


#18 niggles

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:04 AM

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 16/12/2012, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BadCat it does make sense yes, and generally I would agree. But I have been flat out told that atheism is not up for discussion in that sub-forum, which brings me to the point Howdo made about it being about faith.


That's an interesting rule. Is it posted somewhere?

#19 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

No it is not a rule as far as I am aware, but it is what I have been told this morning via PM.

And Niggles what I said was not off topic at all, nor was what the other members whose posts have been deleted also. I will concede that I used the word 'bullsh*t' in my post (not directed at the OP or as an attack but as an example of what someone might be thinking in response to being talked to about religion) and would absolutely cop that using that word was a breach of the rules and it would be reasonable for that to be moderated.

Anyway, this thread is not really about that one specific incident, it is about being told that atheists can't discuss atheism under the 'faith and religion' forum and whether or not that is fair, and should the definition of that particular sub-forum be broadened to encompass a wider variety of viewpoints surrounding faith.

Perhaps if I stop using the word atheist and use the term secular humanist it would be different?

Edited by Jemstar, 16 December 2012 - 11:11 AM.


#20 Cherubs

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

I read your post and I also agree that your post was valid, it was after all asking how to handle an atheist family member.  I have a very strong belief system (not Christian), it is strong enough to withstand opposition, even at it worst. If people want a voice they have to respect that other are also entitled to a voice, especially on a diverse public forum. While I do not respect rude or nasty replies, an answer to a question from your perspective as an atheist deserves equal respect.



#21 Imaginary friend

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

some forums are just for questions/ discussions from a certain point of view - the support for non vaccinations section is the same, you are not allowed to post pro vaccination posts.


I am a christian although  I rarely post in Spirituality section but  I would not object to an atheism section - as long as atheists/ religious folk posted with respect and courtesy in all threads, it shouldnt be a problem though.

I didnt read the removed posts but saying things like 'religious people fill a void with imaginary friends' (a comment still in there) borders on non respect/courtesy to me.

#22 RichardParker

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

QUOTE (BadCat @ 16/12/2012, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it is wrong to disallow atheist viewpoints in that section.  Nobody else on EB has a section where only approved people can post as far as I know (except perhaps the trading room but that's different).

There's no approval system for being allowed to post there.  Atheists can and have posted there before without issue, and that should continue.  I think it was just the way it was moderated this morning, making it about atheism when it was really, as niggles said, just off topic.  The OP didn't need posters berating her for being a religious zealot to her atheist sister, because her OP was quite clear that that wasn't what was happening.  She was more wanting advice for how to deal with her sister who didnt respect her religious beliefs.  

There were a few posts prior to the one this thread is about from atheists which weren't removed.

Edited by *Greenbag*, 16 December 2012 - 11:12 AM.


#23 FiveAus

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

It's interesting that atheism and lack of belief can be discussed by the believers in that forum. But can't be discussed by the non-believers, apparently.

#24 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:13 AM

To be fair Greenbag, no one berated the OP at all.

And yes, given that the are other threads about atheism in that sub-forum what I has been told this morning seems rather inconsistent.

Edited by Jemstar, 16 December 2012 - 11:14 AM.


#25 Starrydawn

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:17 AM

I don't think we atheists need a forum. I don't think it's a belief system. We just don't believe in god. There's no other set of rules we all follow or anything.

Edited by Chedasha, 16 December 2012 - 11:17 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Special Ticket Offer, Save $8!

The Essential Baby & Toddler Show is back this April! Save $8 off the door price for a limited time only!

Why I breastfed my son until he was three

The fact that I not only breastfed my son, but breastfed him for three and a half years, seems pretty incredible in retrospect.

Do babies and young children see ghosts?

Do babies and young children see ghosts? If you’ve pondered the question, you’re not alone.

15 years with Essential Baby: meet Therese

"Life has a funny way of giving you what you need when you need it the most."

Mum causes a stir by taking a stand against leggings

A mum has found herself the subject of debate after claiming tight bottoms cause lustful thoughts in men.

Don't set a parenting goal for 2015 - do this instead

The problem with goal setting as a parent is the measure. How do we really know if we’re succeeding?

5 pregnancy myths that just won't go away

When you're expecting, it often seems like everyone is keen to offer advice about what you should and shouldn't do in the interests of your health and wellbeing.

RPA hospital contacting mums after discovering vaccine storage fault

Sydney's Royal Prince Alfred Hospital (RPA) is trying to contact women who had babies at the facility after discovering a fault in a refrigerator containing vaccines.

'Nutella' not a baby name, French court says

A French court has blocked parents from naming their baby girl after the hazelnut spread Nutella, arguing it would make her the target of mockery.

Why I'm never calling myself 'just a mum' again

I’ve grown three human beings. I feed them, dress them, teach them, care for them and love them 24 hours a day. Yet for eight years, when I meet new people and they’ve asked me what I do, I tell them: “I’m just a mum”.

Rosie Batty named 2015 Australian of the Year

One year ago, Rosie Batty could not have imagined she'd be where she is. Tonight the grieving mum who put domestic violence on the national agenda was named Australian of the Year.

Five reasons to hug more

Hugging – some of us thrive on it, even depend on it – and then there are those who don't care for it really. So, are they missing out?

Help - my three-year-old has started throwing tantrums

My daughter never went through the "terrible twos" but began throwing wild tantrums shortly after her third birthday.

That's commitment

First peek at Sonia Kruger's daughter Maggie

"She smells so good, I could eat her," Kruger tells co-host David Campbell.

Mum assists in own caesarean surgery

A mum who partly delivered her own twins during a caesarean has encouraged other women to take control of their birthing experience.

How to handle common childhood regressions

Regression can be a natural and common part of development prompted by a variety of factors, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.

Disgruntled dad's pram ad goes viral

When buying a second hand pram, there are lots of things to take into consideration. 

Man discovers he's a dad after finding 55-year-old letter

Discovering you are about to father a baby is startling enough - never mind finding out you have a 61-year-old son.

15 thoughts mums have during a tantrum

Ranging from mild to feral and triggered by events both minor and major, tantrums certainly keep life interesting.

Natural pain relief in the early stages of labour

While managing labour pains on your own can be daunting, there are a number of natural pain relief options to help you cope until you are admitted to hospital.

Win an Octonauts prize pack

To celebrate the launch of Octonauts Live! Operation Reef Shield, a spectacular underwater adventure live on stage, we are giving away an amazing Octonauts prize pack to one lucky fan.

Download now: Essential Kids Activity Finder app

Got bored kids? Quickly find the best activities for kids wherever you are in Australia with the Essential Kids app.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Forgotten Baby Syndrome claims the life of toddler

One baby dies every eight days in the back of a car in the US, victims of 'forgotten baby syndrome'.

For a brief time, I was touched by an angel

For a brief time, I was touched by an angel. You stole my heart, and changed me into the women I am today.

Chinese woman gives birth to quintuplets

After six years of trying for a baby, a couple’s dreams have come true many times over after the mum gave birth to quintuplets this week.

Chrissie Swan has reached her "sex quota"

Chrissie Swan says she and her partner have sex once a year due to her fear of falling pregnant.

Stars help save choking babies

It's an important lesson to learn, but one that busy new mums and dads might overlook until it's too late.

New Girl star Zooey Deschanel pregnant

Actress Zooey Deschanel is expecting her first child with her producer boyfriend Jacob Pechenik.

16 times 'dad reflexes' saved the day

Of course, in some cases they may be the ones who actually got their child into a precarious position in the first place, but we'll ignore that for now.

Couple's 'non-traditional' pregnancy announcement goes viral

Knowing you are not the father of your pregnant wife's baby would usually indicate a rocky relationship ahead for traditional parents.

The trials and tribulations of identical triplet newborns

Pip Donnelly is still playing spot the difference with her newborn identical triplets, Isabelle, Georgina and Frankie.

Win an Octonauts prize pack

To celebrate the launch of Octonauts Live! Operation Reef Shield, a spectacular underwater adventure live on stage, we are giving away an amazing Octonauts prize pack to one lucky fan.

Earthquake baby thriving five years on

Jenny Alexis is lucky to be alive after spending four days buried in the rubble of the 2010 Haitian earthquake, but now she's a thriving five year old.

Please don't say I'm lucky because I was adopted

On the one hand I was having a regular life with friends and sports and sleepovers and school. But I was also always wondering: Did my mother love me? What was wrong with me?

An open letter to non-parents who offer advice on child-rearing

Kitty, when you’re the parent of my child you’re welcome to wade in with an opinion – but until then, I’d prefer you to have a supportive ear and a glass of wine ready.

Couple arrested over baby gun video

A US couple faces charges after investigators say they found mobile phone videos showing the woman's 12-month-old daughter putting a handgun in her mouth.

NSW Health dumps 10-year limit on frozen embryos

A 10-year time limit on storing frozen embryos that were created with donor sperm has been dropped by the NSW government.

How my happy-go-lucky husband became a monster

Sharan Nicholson-Rogers watched her husband change from a happy-go-lucky police officer into an unpredictable man prone to violent and emotional outbursts.

Dads-to-be experience hormonal changes, too

Dads-to-be experience hormonal changes in line with their pregnant partners, a new study shows.

'They were just doing their job': mum of toddler killed in police chase gone wrong

"They were just doing their job. I feel so sorry for them. It is all just too sad."

Miscarriages to be formally recognised by NSW government

Women who miscarry will be able to obtain an optional "recognition of loss" certificate as a formal recognition of their often heartbreaking loss.

Cafe cubby house 'too noisy' for neighbours

Teenage parties, domestic disputes, or raucous late night pubs are the things that usually come to mind when you think neighbourhood noise complaints.

Dad films baby playing with snake

Most parents would not consider a snake an appropriate playmate for their baby, but a US dad who filmed his daughter playing with a python has defended himself against criticism.

Clever breastfeeding products

Check out this range of products designed to help make your breastfeeding journey more enjoyable, manageable and convenient.

 

Back to School Offer

Findababysitter.com.au

We've got you covered for this school year. Use www.findababysitter.com.au to meet local nannies now.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.