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SLEEP TRAINING BOOKS
Concerns about Tizzie Hall - Save Our Sleep


12 replies to this topic

#1 smum

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:44 AM

Please tell me im not alone in my concern at some of the advice being given to (us) mothers & parents in Tizzie Halls best selling "Save Our Sleep" book. I cant help but wonder how helpful or dangerous it is to give tired, exhausted & desperate parents advice like this...

Excerpt - "I often come across a baby who has learnt to vomit at bedtime during failed attempts at controlled crying. If you have one of these babies you will need to teach your child that vomiting will not get your attention or buy any extra time. This is hard, but it has to be done to stop the vomiting. The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Layer the towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her to the other end. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do all this and be calm and confident through out, so you can fool your baby into thinking you don't care about vomit."

There are other books on the market that can help promote & achieve natural, normal infant sleep, books that are gentle & peaceful & support a mothers instinct & normal, healthy infant attachment...why this one? Are we that desperately exhausted that we need to do 'this' to make our infants natural sleep needs suit us?

Tizzie Halls advice is completely unfounded anthropologically, biologically & psychologically. It is not evidence based & at times her advice goes against the SIDS safe sleep guidelines. This book is not recommended by any paediatric association on earth & the practices within in it are in fact discouraged by many paediatric professional organisations as well as the Australian Infant Mental Health Association.

No matter what sleep issues youve had, what practices youve tried to help obtain that ever elusive sleep, i dont know how any parent can read that excerpt & not be heart broken...that is not what being a parent is about, that is absolutely heartbreaking.


Some gentle sleep books:
Sleeping Like a Baby - Pinky McKay
No Cry Sleep Solutions - Elizabeth Pantley
Three in the Bed - Deborah Jackson
The Baby Sleep Book - Dr Willam Sears
Helping Your Baby to Sleep - Anni Gethin & Beth Macgregor

Edited by smum, 16 December 2012 - 04:45 AM.


#2 mum201

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:32 PM

I think you are preaching to the converted here (in the most part).

#3 ollies-mum

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

I know their is always loads of posts on this lady and ive never read her book, but my mouth is hanging open at the above excerpt. I cant believe anyone would listen to that advice. Just horrible sad.gif

#4 Feral_Pooks

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:50 PM

I am not against controlled crying when needed, but that does read pretty harsh. I can't really imagine this applying for a small baby.

Just to throw something out there, coz I know all babies are different so some parents might not have experienced this.

At about 5 months my DS could intentionally make himself vomit to get attention. He had reflux so he learned that vomiting= attention. I never made a big fuss of his vomiting unless he was also obviously distressed, and would often quietly change the sheets and clothes as Tizzie describes, without fuss and bother, calm and peaceful. I also had to learn to NOT pick him up if he was calm (I had been, but then realized my mistake), as he then thought he was getting up and the confusion would upset him when I tried to get him back to sleep (he is very much a creature of routine and predictability, any weirdness would make it so hard for him to sleep).

I also had to get DS to stop vomiting for attention, and yes that meant not giving too much attention to his vomits (let me reinforce, ONLY when his vomiting was not accompanied by distress, I would ALWAYS respond to distress). I'm fortunate that in terms of getting him to sleep, he is more of a yeller, whinger and player than a crier.

He will still occasionally do it in the car, because he hates the car with a passion and will grunt and try to bust loose of the car seat, and eventually get really angry and sometimes will vomit. If I turn to look at him, he will grin. We are not talking about a distressed baby here, we are talking about a very determined one. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to drive, so I can't do much to remove that particular unpleasantness from his life.

Unfortunately for him, I also need to sleep and go about daily activities, so controlled crying, or responsive settling, or whatever you want to call it, was part of the picture for us. It wasn't so much about trying to get a baby to conform to my unrealistic demands, as it was me insisting I needed more than 3 hours sleep total per night, and couldn't spend half the day on the couch holding him while he slept.

I'm not saying Tizzie is right (not by a long shot), I'm just putting it out there that there are other reasons parents might do some of those things.

#5 PurpleNess

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Do people really think babies vomit for attention? Really?

I'd urge all parents to do their own research before employing any of the CC methods & learn what it is that actually happens to your baby physiologically and why they actually stop crying...



#6 Cat People

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

Yes the vomiting passage is particularly distressing.

I don't believe a baby vomits for attention.  And if it does?  Then how desperate is the poor little thing?  If I concluded that my child was vomiting just for attention, then that is what I would give him - my attention.

She wrote all that pre-kids I believe and I wondered if she has soften some.

#7 Kay1

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

I looked into her 'routines' when DS3 was a few weeks old. When I realised there seemed to be no settling techniques apart from wrapping your baby and putting them to bed and walking away I bailed.

#8 Pop-to-the-shops

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

Unfortunately I think a lot of these books are just money making exercises preying on desperate parents.

Having said that I am finding the 'wonder weeks' quite interesting, and I think I am noticing more things about how my baby is developing and developmental stages than I did with my first two babies. It's interesting to watch, and I thing it makes me a bit more relaxed, as most things are 'a phase' that they will eventually grow out of. (We hope!)

#9 WinterIsComing

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

From everything I read, it seems a baby just doesn't have the mental capacity to strategise and plan ahead, ie "I will vomit and mummy will come", manipulation is just outside their abilities. A lot of them do vomit from intense crying, unintentionally. Once I had to drive in bad traffic without stopping for hall an hour and DS wouldnt stop crying....after a while he started dry retching, couldn't stop, it was horrific and I was in tears, I could never follow her advice.

#10 *mylittleprince*

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

I've just had twins and my local multiple birth club swear by her methods and routines and many people follow them strictly. I decided to read her book (didn't use any books for DS) and didn't like the idea of a rigid routine (and the feeds seemed like so little) so demand feed and follow tired signs for sleep and it's all working out well (so far).

Each to their own though.

#11 greengoddess

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Akatara @ 17/12/2012, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Unfortunately I think a lot of these books are just money making exercises preying on desperate parents.

Having said that I am finding the 'wonder weeks' quite interesting, and I think I am noticing more things about how my baby is developing and developmental stages than I did with my first two babies. It's interesting to watch, and I thing it makes me a bit more relaxed, as most things are 'a phase' that they will eventually grow out of. (We hope!)


The Wonder Weeks are awesome! We can totally tell when he's having one - usually after a few days of saying "what the hell is wrong with this kid.... !", and then the developmental leap is amazing. DS is over two now, and they haven't tracked them, but we can still recognise the signs. About two weeks ago he was just having a massive stormy period that even DH said "Come on! You can't be wonder weeking for weeks on end!", and in the last week we've noticed some massive leaps in imaginative and collaborative play - so cool to see!

As for Dizzy - her work is counter-intuitive, suggesting that every baby can be made to conform to her routine. Did you read the part where it said babies need like five thousand blankets? I think the main thing people should do is inform themselves about what NORMAL sleeping patterns are for a baby. The more realistic our expectations, the less stress and anxiety about whether or not our baby is doing the right thing - or we as parents for that matter.

I particularly love Dizzy's advice for toddlers when trying to teach them to stop doing something. She uses a "holding" technique which comes with the lovely associated speech "Do you want Mummy to hold you? Mummy doesn't WANT to hold you". Look on youtube. It is cringeworthy.

And yes. It is purely a moneymaking empire - one that preys on vulnerable, stressed parents. Horrible.

#12 CallMeFeral

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

That's awful sad.gif
People around here are already pretty against her though.

I do know of some kids (MUCH older) who have learned to stick their fingers down their throats to vomit. I once tutored an autistic boy who used to do this. We were supposed to be doing behavioural therapy with him and that involved ignoring the vomiting and carrying on. It was quite heartbreaking... and also gross, so we did let his grandparents in to clean him up and then resume therapy. And after a while he stopped doing it.
But that was aged 4 or 5!

#13 Jenferal

Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

I saw the "holding thing" on YouTube once, it was terrible. I can't imagine telling my child"I don't Want to hold you but I will" and I can't see how it's an effective teaching tool/discipline technique.



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