Jump to content

SLEEP TRAINING BOOKS
Concerns about Tizzie Hall - Save Our Sleep


11 replies to this topic

#1 smum

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:44 AM

Please tell me im not alone in my concern at some of the advice being given to (us) mothers & parents in Tizzie Halls best selling "Save Our Sleep" book. I cant help but wonder how helpful or dangerous it is to give tired, exhausted & desperate parents advice like this...

Excerpt - "I often come across a baby who has learnt to vomit at bedtime during failed attempts at controlled crying. If you have one of these babies you will need to teach your child that vomiting will not get your attention or buy any extra time. This is hard, but it has to be done to stop the vomiting. The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Layer the towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her to the other end. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do all this and be calm and confident through out, so you can fool your baby into thinking you don't care about vomit."

There are other books on the market that can help promote & achieve natural, normal infant sleep, books that are gentle & peaceful & support a mothers instinct & normal, healthy infant attachment...why this one? Are we that desperately exhausted that we need to do 'this' to make our infants natural sleep needs suit us?

Tizzie Halls advice is completely unfounded anthropologically, biologically & psychologically. It is not evidence based & at times her advice goes against the SIDS safe sleep guidelines. This book is not recommended by any paediatric association on earth & the practices within in it are in fact discouraged by many paediatric professional organisations as well as the Australian Infant Mental Health Association.

No matter what sleep issues youve had, what practices youve tried to help obtain that ever elusive sleep, i dont know how any parent can read that excerpt & not be heart broken...that is not what being a parent is about, that is absolutely heartbreaking.


Some gentle sleep books:
Sleeping Like a Baby - Pinky McKay
No Cry Sleep Solutions - Elizabeth Pantley
Three in the Bed - Deborah Jackson
The Baby Sleep Book - Dr Willam Sears
Helping Your Baby to Sleep - Anni Gethin & Beth Macgregor

Edited by smum, 16 December 2012 - 04:45 AM.


#2 mum201

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:32 PM

I think you are preaching to the converted here (in the most part).

#3 ollies-mum

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

I know their is always loads of posts on this lady and ive never read her book, but my mouth is hanging open at the above excerpt. I cant believe anyone would listen to that advice. Just horrible sad.gif

#4 ShamelesslyPooks

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:50 PM

I am not against controlled crying when needed, but that does read pretty harsh. I can't really imagine this applying for a small baby.

Just to throw something out there, coz I know all babies are different so some parents might not have experienced this.

At about 5 months my DS could intentionally make himself vomit to get attention. He had reflux so he learned that vomiting= attention. I never made a big fuss of his vomiting unless he was also obviously distressed, and would often quietly change the sheets and clothes as Tizzie describes, without fuss and bother, calm and peaceful. I also had to learn to NOT pick him up if he was calm (I had been, but then realized my mistake), as he then thought he was getting up and the confusion would upset him when I tried to get him back to sleep (he is very much a creature of routine and predictability, any weirdness would make it so hard for him to sleep).

I also had to get DS to stop vomiting for attention, and yes that meant not giving too much attention to his vomits (let me reinforce, ONLY when his vomiting was not accompanied by distress, I would ALWAYS respond to distress). I'm fortunate that in terms of getting him to sleep, he is more of a yeller, whinger and player than a crier.

He will still occasionally do it in the car, because he hates the car with a passion and will grunt and try to bust loose of the car seat, and eventually get really angry and sometimes will vomit. If I turn to look at him, he will grin. We are not talking about a distressed baby here, we are talking about a very determined one. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to drive, so I can't do much to remove that particular unpleasantness from his life.

Unfortunately for him, I also need to sleep and go about daily activities, so controlled crying, or responsive settling, or whatever you want to call it, was part of the picture for us. It wasn't so much about trying to get a baby to conform to my unrealistic demands, as it was me insisting I needed more than 3 hours sleep total per night, and couldn't spend half the day on the couch holding him while he slept.

I'm not saying Tizzie is right (not by a long shot), I'm just putting it out there that there are other reasons parents might do some of those things.

#5 PurpleNess

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Do people really think babies vomit for attention? Really?

I'd urge all parents to do their own research before employing any of the CC methods & learn what it is that actually happens to your baby physiologically and why they actually stop crying...



#6 Kay1

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

I looked into her 'routines' when DS3 was a few weeks old. When I realised there seemed to be no settling techniques apart from wrapping your baby and putting them to bed and walking away I bailed.

#7 Pop-to-the-shops

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

Unfortunately I think a lot of these books are just money making exercises preying on desperate parents.

Having said that I am finding the 'wonder weeks' quite interesting, and I think I am noticing more things about how my baby is developing and developmental stages than I did with my first two babies. It's interesting to watch, and I thing it makes me a bit more relaxed, as most things are 'a phase' that they will eventually grow out of. (We hope!)

#8 WinterIsComing

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

From everything I read, it seems a baby just doesn't have the mental capacity to strategise and plan ahead, ie "I will vomit and mummy will come", manipulation is just outside their abilities. A lot of them do vomit from intense crying, unintentionally. Once I had to drive in bad traffic without stopping for hall an hour and DS wouldnt stop crying....after a while he started dry retching, couldn't stop, it was horrific and I was in tears, I could never follow her advice.

#9 *mylittleprince*

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

I've just had twins and my local multiple birth club swear by her methods and routines and many people follow them strictly. I decided to read her book (didn't use any books for DS) and didn't like the idea of a rigid routine (and the feeds seemed like so little) so demand feed and follow tired signs for sleep and it's all working out well (so far).

Each to their own though.

#10 greengoddess

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Akatara @ 17/12/2012, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Unfortunately I think a lot of these books are just money making exercises preying on desperate parents.

Having said that I am finding the 'wonder weeks' quite interesting, and I think I am noticing more things about how my baby is developing and developmental stages than I did with my first two babies. It's interesting to watch, and I thing it makes me a bit more relaxed, as most things are 'a phase' that they will eventually grow out of. (We hope!)


The Wonder Weeks are awesome! We can totally tell when he's having one - usually after a few days of saying "what the hell is wrong with this kid.... !", and then the developmental leap is amazing. DS is over two now, and they haven't tracked them, but we can still recognise the signs. About two weeks ago he was just having a massive stormy period that even DH said "Come on! You can't be wonder weeking for weeks on end!", and in the last week we've noticed some massive leaps in imaginative and collaborative play - so cool to see!

As for Dizzy - her work is counter-intuitive, suggesting that every baby can be made to conform to her routine. Did you read the part where it said babies need like five thousand blankets? I think the main thing people should do is inform themselves about what NORMAL sleeping patterns are for a baby. The more realistic our expectations, the less stress and anxiety about whether or not our baby is doing the right thing - or we as parents for that matter.

I particularly love Dizzy's advice for toddlers when trying to teach them to stop doing something. She uses a "holding" technique which comes with the lovely associated speech "Do you want Mummy to hold you? Mummy doesn't WANT to hold you". Look on youtube. It is cringeworthy.

And yes. It is purely a moneymaking empire - one that preys on vulnerable, stressed parents. Horrible.

#11 CallMeFeral

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

That's awful sad.gif
People around here are already pretty against her though.

I do know of some kids (MUCH older) who have learned to stick their fingers down their throats to vomit. I once tutored an autistic boy who used to do this. We were supposed to be doing behavioural therapy with him and that involved ignoring the vomiting and carrying on. It was quite heartbreaking... and also gross, so we did let his grandparents in to clean him up and then resume therapy. And after a while he stopped doing it.
But that was aged 4 or 5!

#12 Jenflea

Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

I saw the "holding thing" on YouTube once, it was terrible. I can't imagine telling my child"I don't Want to hold you but I will" and I can't see how it's an effective teaching tool/discipline technique.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

We can reduce gender inequality in housework – here’s how

Women shoulder the time-intensive and routine tasks - and they're also more likely to do the least enjoyable tasks like scrubbing the toilets versus washing the car.

Is it okay to reward children with food?

Does giving children food as a reward turn them into emotional eaters?

Exhausted mums share their 'sleepy selfies'

Two photos of mums have shown the world the physical impact of exhaustion in all its frazzled glory.

How to tell a million people: 'We're Having a Baby!'

Pregnancy announcement videos have become so popular they're becoming businesses all their own, with YouTube compilations, Pinterest pages and morning television segments.

The new family holiday: the maternitymoon

It's an idea that makes some people feel excited, while others shudder at the increased difficulty.

Mum's instinct busts hospital protocol

A terrifying car crash that left Danni Bett lying in hospital in a neck-brace wasn't enough to stop her from breastfeeding.

Mum shares pic of Gordon Ramsay's baby doppelganger

A Welsh couple have realised their newborn has a striking resemblance to a certain celebrity chef.

Photographer's charming photos of son's adventures with his toy truck

An adorable toddler and his toy truck in a photo series that'll melt your heart.

Do you hide your emotions from your kids?

I want my children to grow up and know it's okay to feel strong emotion and to display it. Vulnerability and imperfection do not equal weakness.

My in-laws snubbed our wedding

For your own husband's parents not to come to your wedding is an utter embarrassment.

Teenage boy has foetus removed from stomach

A teenage boy has undergone surgery to remove a foetus, complete with hair, legs, hands and genitals, removed from his stomach.

Your one-year-old is more creative than you might think

Even one-year-olds can be very exploratory, experimental and creative.

Researchers claim controlled crying 'does no harm'

The short and long term consequences of controlled crying are under the spotlight with new Australian research suggesting no harm results from the practice.

The pain of teething

If the tooth fairy takes teeth away, it must be something like a goblin who brings them in the first place.

Henry, 3, had a tummy ache. Within hours he was dead

Three-year-old Henry died in February this year, just a few hours after falling ill.

Husband shot obstetrician who saw wife naked

A Saudi man has been arrested after shooting the male obstetrician who delievered his baby because he was unhappy the doctor had seen his wife naked.

This 6-month-old just became 'the youngest water-skier'

First, baby Zyla tried her trick on cushy, beige carpet.

The bedtime bottle: will it really make your baby sleep?

How often have you been told "Just give your breastfed baby a bottle of formula at bedtime to make him sleep"? But does it work?

Why new mum Anne Hathaway cried at the gym

She might be a Hollywood superstar, but the gorgeous Anne Hathaway feels just as self-conscious as other new mums trying to get back in shape after having a baby.

An intimate story of infertility, told from a man's perspective

In a moving 3000-word Facebook post, Dan Majesky has shared a painful journey of infertility, with a big surprise at the end.

Does this photo offend you?

Facebook has come under fire after banning an ad featuring Tess Holliday, a plus-sized model, wearing a bikini.

Baby boy's birth filled with joy and sadness

It was a moment filled with joy but tinged with sadness. 

 
Advertisement
 

Top 5 Articles

Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

The babies who are one in 70 million

Bethani Webb was excited to find out she was pregnant, but the first time mum did not realise she was carrying four babies not one.

Cafe offers breastfeeding mums a free cup of tea

A Sydney cafe is offering breastfeeding mums free cups of tea in a bid to show support for the right of women to nurse their babies wherever they choose.

To snip or not to snip? When the decision is not clear cut

Jamie Oliver, who considered a vasectomy, is to be a father again. A fellow dad reflects on his own decision 11 years ago

Doctors stunned by rare twins born almost six weeks apart

To everyone's surprise, Kristen Miller "kept doing better each day", keeping her second baby safe.

Baby book ideas for modern parents

Before my son was born I was given a lovely baby book full of blank pages waiting to be filled with weights and heights and first words.

The adorable smile of a baby seeing his mum clearly for the first time

There is no doubt seeing their child smile for the first time is an unforgettable moment for parents everywhere.

Mum tells how toddler 'nearly hung himself' in cot mishap

When Alison Johnson put her 18-month-old Caleb down for a nap, she had no reason to believe her son was in any danger.

Babies are still switched at birth? Yes, it can happen

All my panic and tears aside, my biggest question looking back is about the kind of security measures used in the maternity ward.

Doctors slammed for taking selfie with newborn

Everyone who visits a mum in hospital in the days following childbirth wants to get a photo with the new baby.

ergoPouch Twosie Sleepsuit for winter breastfeeding

Finally, there's a way to keep warm while breastfeeding through winter.

Health check: How long does sex 'normally' last?

What to do with this information? My advice would be to try not to think about it during the throes of passion.

When breastfeeding sucks: fixing common problems

From niplash to tight boobs, biting to milk supply issues, Pinky McKay looks at common breastfeeding issues and how to solve them.

10 things I've learnt in my first six months with twins

Six months on we're all still alive, and the more we get to know each other the easier the days become.

Mum's loving kiss leaves baby fighting for life

Kirsty Carrington thought nothing of giving her newborn son a kiss, little did she know it would leave the baby fighting for life.

When doing chores is your new 'me time'

After children, 'me time' looks a little different.

Get going: 14 travel strollers for families on the move

A stroller can make or break travelling with a baby or toddler. Here are 15 great single travel stroller options.

10 ways toddlers are terrific

It always pays to remind yourself of how terrific toddlers can be - they're little like this for such a short time

 

Vintage Toys

The toys of your childhood

Take a trip down memory lane with these vinage and retro toys that you may have had in your childhood or your parent's childhood.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.