Jump to content

SLEEP TRAINING BOOKS
Concerns about Tizzie Hall - Save Our Sleep


11 replies to this topic

#1 smum

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:44 AM

Please tell me im not alone in my concern at some of the advice being given to (us) mothers & parents in Tizzie Halls best selling "Save Our Sleep" book. I cant help but wonder how helpful or dangerous it is to give tired, exhausted & desperate parents advice like this...

Excerpt - "I often come across a baby who has learnt to vomit at bedtime during failed attempts at controlled crying. If you have one of these babies you will need to teach your child that vomiting will not get your attention or buy any extra time. This is hard, but it has to be done to stop the vomiting. The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Layer the towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her to the other end. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do all this and be calm and confident through out, so you can fool your baby into thinking you don't care about vomit."

There are other books on the market that can help promote & achieve natural, normal infant sleep, books that are gentle & peaceful & support a mothers instinct & normal, healthy infant attachment...why this one? Are we that desperately exhausted that we need to do 'this' to make our infants natural sleep needs suit us?

Tizzie Halls advice is completely unfounded anthropologically, biologically & psychologically. It is not evidence based & at times her advice goes against the SIDS safe sleep guidelines. This book is not recommended by any paediatric association on earth & the practices within in it are in fact discouraged by many paediatric professional organisations as well as the Australian Infant Mental Health Association.

No matter what sleep issues youve had, what practices youve tried to help obtain that ever elusive sleep, i dont know how any parent can read that excerpt & not be heart broken...that is not what being a parent is about, that is absolutely heartbreaking.


Some gentle sleep books:
Sleeping Like a Baby - Pinky McKay
No Cry Sleep Solutions - Elizabeth Pantley
Three in the Bed - Deborah Jackson
The Baby Sleep Book - Dr Willam Sears
Helping Your Baby to Sleep - Anni Gethin & Beth Macgregor

Edited by smum, 16 December 2012 - 04:45 AM.


#2 mum201

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:32 PM

I think you are preaching to the converted here (in the most part).

#3 ollies-mum

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

I know their is always loads of posts on this lady and ive never read her book, but my mouth is hanging open at the above excerpt. I cant believe anyone would listen to that advice. Just horrible sad.gif

#4 Feral_Pooks

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:50 PM

I am not against controlled crying when needed, but that does read pretty harsh. I can't really imagine this applying for a small baby.

Just to throw something out there, coz I know all babies are different so some parents might not have experienced this.

At about 5 months my DS could intentionally make himself vomit to get attention. He had reflux so he learned that vomiting= attention. I never made a big fuss of his vomiting unless he was also obviously distressed, and would often quietly change the sheets and clothes as Tizzie describes, without fuss and bother, calm and peaceful. I also had to learn to NOT pick him up if he was calm (I had been, but then realized my mistake), as he then thought he was getting up and the confusion would upset him when I tried to get him back to sleep (he is very much a creature of routine and predictability, any weirdness would make it so hard for him to sleep).

I also had to get DS to stop vomiting for attention, and yes that meant not giving too much attention to his vomits (let me reinforce, ONLY when his vomiting was not accompanied by distress, I would ALWAYS respond to distress). I'm fortunate that in terms of getting him to sleep, he is more of a yeller, whinger and player than a crier.

He will still occasionally do it in the car, because he hates the car with a passion and will grunt and try to bust loose of the car seat, and eventually get really angry and sometimes will vomit. If I turn to look at him, he will grin. We are not talking about a distressed baby here, we are talking about a very determined one. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to drive, so I can't do much to remove that particular unpleasantness from his life.

Unfortunately for him, I also need to sleep and go about daily activities, so controlled crying, or responsive settling, or whatever you want to call it, was part of the picture for us. It wasn't so much about trying to get a baby to conform to my unrealistic demands, as it was me insisting I needed more than 3 hours sleep total per night, and couldn't spend half the day on the couch holding him while he slept.

I'm not saying Tizzie is right (not by a long shot), I'm just putting it out there that there are other reasons parents might do some of those things.

#5 PurpleNess

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Do people really think babies vomit for attention? Really?

I'd urge all parents to do their own research before employing any of the CC methods & learn what it is that actually happens to your baby physiologically and why they actually stop crying...



#6 Kay1

Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

I looked into her 'routines' when DS3 was a few weeks old. When I realised there seemed to be no settling techniques apart from wrapping your baby and putting them to bed and walking away I bailed.

#7 Pop-to-the-shops

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

Unfortunately I think a lot of these books are just money making exercises preying on desperate parents.

Having said that I am finding the 'wonder weeks' quite interesting, and I think I am noticing more things about how my baby is developing and developmental stages than I did with my first two babies. It's interesting to watch, and I thing it makes me a bit more relaxed, as most things are 'a phase' that they will eventually grow out of. (We hope!)

#8 WinterIsComing

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

From everything I read, it seems a baby just doesn't have the mental capacity to strategise and plan ahead, ie "I will vomit and mummy will come", manipulation is just outside their abilities. A lot of them do vomit from intense crying, unintentionally. Once I had to drive in bad traffic without stopping for hall an hour and DS wouldnt stop crying....after a while he started dry retching, couldn't stop, it was horrific and I was in tears, I could never follow her advice.

#9 *mylittleprince*

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

I've just had twins and my local multiple birth club swear by her methods and routines and many people follow them strictly. I decided to read her book (didn't use any books for DS) and didn't like the idea of a rigid routine (and the feeds seemed like so little) so demand feed and follow tired signs for sleep and it's all working out well (so far).

Each to their own though.

#10 greengoddess

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Akatara @ 17/12/2012, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Unfortunately I think a lot of these books are just money making exercises preying on desperate parents.

Having said that I am finding the 'wonder weeks' quite interesting, and I think I am noticing more things about how my baby is developing and developmental stages than I did with my first two babies. It's interesting to watch, and I thing it makes me a bit more relaxed, as most things are 'a phase' that they will eventually grow out of. (We hope!)


The Wonder Weeks are awesome! We can totally tell when he's having one - usually after a few days of saying "what the hell is wrong with this kid.... !", and then the developmental leap is amazing. DS is over two now, and they haven't tracked them, but we can still recognise the signs. About two weeks ago he was just having a massive stormy period that even DH said "Come on! You can't be wonder weeking for weeks on end!", and in the last week we've noticed some massive leaps in imaginative and collaborative play - so cool to see!

As for Dizzy - her work is counter-intuitive, suggesting that every baby can be made to conform to her routine. Did you read the part where it said babies need like five thousand blankets? I think the main thing people should do is inform themselves about what NORMAL sleeping patterns are for a baby. The more realistic our expectations, the less stress and anxiety about whether or not our baby is doing the right thing - or we as parents for that matter.

I particularly love Dizzy's advice for toddlers when trying to teach them to stop doing something. She uses a "holding" technique which comes with the lovely associated speech "Do you want Mummy to hold you? Mummy doesn't WANT to hold you". Look on youtube. It is cringeworthy.

And yes. It is purely a moneymaking empire - one that preys on vulnerable, stressed parents. Horrible.

#11 CallMeFeral

Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

That's awful sad.gif
People around here are already pretty against her though.

I do know of some kids (MUCH older) who have learned to stick their fingers down their throats to vomit. I once tutored an autistic boy who used to do this. We were supposed to be doing behavioural therapy with him and that involved ignoring the vomiting and carrying on. It was quite heartbreaking... and also gross, so we did let his grandparents in to clean him up and then resume therapy. And after a while he stopped doing it.
But that was aged 4 or 5!

#12 Marchioness Flea

Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

I saw the "holding thing" on YouTube once, it was terrible. I can't imagine telling my child"I don't Want to hold you but I will" and I can't see how it's an effective teaching tool/discipline technique.



Reply to this topic



  


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Wet wipes linked to rise in allergic reactions

The government has issued a health warning after a rise in allergic skin reactions has been linked to a preservative found in some wet wipes.

Gay couple in their 80s first to wed in Dallas after Supreme Court ruling

Love may have won, but it came with quite the wait.

William Tyrrell's family marks birthday with cake and renewed appeal

The family of missing boy William Tyrrell will mark his fourth birthday on Friday making a cake to share with friends and family as NSW police renewed their public appeal for information on his disappearance.

What all parents should know about safe babywearing

A picture of Ryan Reynolds always gets the girls talking, and a recently shared photo has done exactly that - but this time, it's for all the wrong reasons.

Baby's head shape reveals potentially fatal condition

Thinking her baby just had an unusually shaped head, a mother was shocked to discover it was instead linked to a dangerous condition.

'Help - my toddler hits me!'

My toddler has started hitting when he gets frustrated, is feeling ignored, or just thinks it might be fun.

Why IVF success rates may not be what you think

Transparency, accountability and responsibilityare essential measures to protect IVF vulnerable patients.

On the 10th anniversary of my son's death

This day marks a significant day. Today marks 10 years since I lost my son Kai.

Owning a pair of nail scissors does not make me a hairdresser

It's been a whole year since sleeping in until 10am. A whole year since having a peaceful shower.

WIN A $500 VISA DEBIT CARD

Are you a parent, or are you planning to be? Tell us what you think and you'll go in the draw to win a $500 gift card!

Sexy time

Why you should get excited about scheduling sex

Unfortunately, the belief that sex should always be spontaneous is a myth. It just isn't.

Orphaned baby daughter Ayla wakes from coma

Former All Black Jerry Collins' critically injured orphaned daughter has awoken from her coma and is able to bottle-feed.

Dad takes miraculous catch while feeding baby

One American father has taken multitasking to a new level at a Cubs-Dodgers baseball game at Wrigley Field.

'Samuel is our firstborn, and he will never be forgotten'

Having lost their firstborn at one day old, the Carrolls were overjoyed to welcome their daughter Isobel into the world a year later.

The top 6 misleading parenting terms

From 'morning sickness' to 'the terrible twos', there are many parenting terms that are misleading.

When 'good' nannies go bad

While most nannies take pride in their work, there can be some who have a hidden side.

Woman hospitalised for skinny jeans injury

Beware: skinny jeans might be bad for your health.

Gauze seeding: the bacteria-breeding birth trend

A number of women having caesarean deliveries are now taking steps to give their baby a better 'microbiome' start in life.

Jimmy Fallon writes new children's book for dads

Jimmy Fallon, host of NBC's The Tonight Show, recently wrote a children's book about every father's secret wish for their baby's first word to be "dada" - not "mama".

28 names for babies born in winter

Looking for some baby name inspiration for a bub born during the colder months? Here are 28 options from around the world to consider.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

27 funny ultrasound pictures

Ultrasounds give you a look at your growing baby ... and sometimes what appears to their womb-buddy, or your bub in an amusing position.

The horrible act that sparked a brawl at child's birthday party

The uncle of the seven-year-old girl at the centre of the brawl at child's birthday party in Sydney's west has described the events leading up to the alarming show of violence.

Babies 'benefit from iPads at a young age': study

More often than not, you'll read that screen time for children should be kept to a minimum - but some scientists are now challenging this way of thinking.

Do mums really just obsessively talk about their children?

Natalie Reilly describes three main types of conversations mothers have. And, surprise, they're not all about kids.

Why some dogs might attack babies or young kids

A baby's smell, the noises it makes and even its gaze can contribute to the potential for a dog attack.

Mum demands refund for 'beargina' christening cake

It was meant to be a tasteful cake to help celebrate a three-year-old's christening.

5 things no one warns you about after giving birth

How many times have you been warned about all the sleepless nights you have to 'look forward to' when you become a parent?

Police officer sang nursery rhyme as heartbreaking photo was taken

A police officer arrived at a devastating scene on Thursday: a car crash resulting in all passengers being thrown from the vehicle.

Don't worry, working mums: Just leave Dad in charge at home

Want to open the boardroom doors for women? Encourage - heck, praise - dads who stay home with their children.

Hilaria Baldwin shares post-baby selfie

Just two days after giving birth, actor Alec Balwin's wife posted a post-baby picture on social media.

'Help - my child won't ever do what I ask!'

Compliance is part of the parent-child relationship, but so is resistance. It's all natural.

Postnatal depression support gets $23 million boost in NSW

The Baird government will include $22.8 million in Tuesday's NSW budget to expand a program designed to help parents at risk of postnatal depression (PND).

'I'm just as tired, scared and stressed as you': stay-at-home dad's plea

I'm really lucky to have two great kids, but I found it really tough with so much being aimed at the mothers and not the fathers.

6 tips for transitioning back to work after baby

Mums returning to work - and yes, dads too - aren't the same as when they left. But that doesn't mean they're not as good as they once were.

Couple reveals pregnancy with epic Britney Spears parody

How do you create an original pregnancy announcement and gender reveal? You turn to Britney Spears.

The truth about birthing a big baby

When told that they are having a 'big baby', many women have a lot of fears. But those fears are often unfounded.

Eight months pregnant and addicted to eating soap

This bizarre snack takes the cake (of soap) when it comes to weird pregnancy cravings.

Can you spot the drowning child?

Can you spot him in the video? The child who loses his rubber ring, panics, and then almost drowns? It isn't easy.

Noodles, peanuts, wee wees and lady bits

Yes, I know it's silly. I know all the advice from experts is to use the right terminology from the moment your child can talk. But I just can't.

Mum's brave battle for unborn triplets amid cancer diagnosis

Bree O'Malley has a cancer diagnosis, a rare blood condition, kidney and liver failure and other complications. And she is pregnant with triplets.

 

Win $500

WIN A $500 VISA DEBIT CARD

Are you are parent or planning to be? We want to know what you think - let us know and you'll be in the draw to win a $500 gift card.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.