Jump to content

Job application - okay to send more than they ask for?


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 Academic

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:04 PM

I know this is probably the wrong forum for this, but I'm posting here for traffic as I want to send this application in the next couple of hours.

I'm about to apply for my dream job. They asked for a selection criteria response and CV, nothing else. I have those all ready to go, but I've also just received a pretty amazing written reference from someone that I think could really help me - they are quite high profile in the field. Is it okay to send this with my application as well, or is it too irritating to the employer to have even more information to wade through?

#2 PatG

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:08 PM

How long is the reference? If it is fairly short (half a page?) then perhaps include it.  Do they ask for referees?  If so list them at the end of the CV and add a note "see attached written reference".

#3 Fanny McPhail

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:13 PM

I personally would send it. I don't think sending it would negatively impact your application.

If they have to conform to strict rules, about what they do or don't accept, they can always disregard it at this stage of the process.




#4 Academic

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:17 PM

It's actually quite long, just over one page. I have referees on my CV but this person isn't one of them, as I only have my past/current direct managers on there, as that is normally what is requested. Basically the referee the subject of a major program I managed (difficult to explain without getting specific, but I try to be vague and unidentifiable on the internet where possible!)

#5 PatG

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

I would think that your referees should be those who can best attest to your competency for the job you are applying for.  In addition your current manager as not including them can look a bit funny (as if you have something to hide).  Can you talk to this person and ask if you can include them as a referee?  If it comes to an interview and beyond they are likely to want to actually talk to them as the letter could theoretically be forged.

#6 emlis22

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

I wouldn't send it. They might think you can't even follow instructions. So not a good start.

#7 Steggles

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

I'd send it. More chance of it doing good than harm. If you don't and don't get an interview you would always wonder what if you had!

#8 Academic

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:35 PM

Thanks everyone! I'm still going back and forth in my head. I am concerned it will be viewed as being unable to follow instructions, although as the CEO of the organisation knows me / has worked with me before (not as my manager, as a partner to the organisation I currently work for), I imagine I may get a little more benefit of the doubt than someone going in completely blind. Similarly, the organisation has also worked with the referee in question, so it would be very easy for them to verify it.

I could include her as a referee on the CV, but it would be difficult for a potential employer to contact her as she lives overseas. Therefore her reference would be a written one anyway.

#9 seayork2002

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

I would send it and if it was me receiving it I would be happy or not bothered, if you were sending 100's of pages that would be annoying but not just one reference.

#10 tle

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:38 PM

Send it. References are viewed as part of your CV so you don't need to worry about being seen as "not able to follow instructions".

#11 Georgie01

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

QUOTE
Can you talk to this person and ask if you can include them as a referee?


This is what I'd do - I don't know about other fields but in my own area written references supplied by an applicant are ignored because the referee usually only writes positives (who is going to send in a bad one?). I much prefer to contact the referee directly as the response is much more likely to be open.

ETA because OP updated as I was responding:
QUOTE
I could include her as a referee on the CV, but it would be difficult for a potential employer to contact her as she lives overseas. Therefore her reference would be a written one anyway.


I don't see a written reference as a problem - provided it doesn't pass through the applicant's hands. I've given and received many written references but through processes that bypass the applicant.

Edited by Georgie01, 11 December 2012 - 12:45 PM.


#12 Beanbag Warrior

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

i would put them on the CV as a referee with (written reference attached) and include as part of the CV, not as a separate document.

#13 Mpjp is feral

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:44 PM

I'm in HR and handle recruitment.

It depends on the field. In my current industry - it would get totally and utterly disregarded - lots of reasons - but mainly bc we FAR prefer to speak to someone - written references aren't really valued, for lots of reasons. Although I can see other industries liking the idea.

I would however include that person as a reference name on your CV. We are very interested in who you have listed as this often says a lot as well - espcially if they are high profiel (and well regarded in the field).

Edited by meplainjanebrain, 11 December 2012 - 12:45 PM.


#14 SeaPrincess

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

QUOTE (Georgie01 @ 11/12/2012, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
Can you talk to this person and ask if you can include them as a referee?

This is what I'd do - I don't know about other fields but in my own area written references supplied by an applicant are ignored because the referee usually only writes positives (who is going to send in a bad one?). I much prefer to contact the referee directly as the response is much more likely to be open.

I agree.  And conversely, if a referee wrote negatives, the applicant wouldn't supply it.
I was involved in the hiring process in my old job and the process was so defined that a reference may not even get read. We did reference checks after interviews.

#15 tle

Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

SeaPrincess, you'd be surpised what kind of references people include with applications. I've culled people from the application process not specifically because of what was written but because the applicant can't be that bright if they don't know enough to exclude a written reference that portrays lazy, unpunctual and dishonest.

#16 brazen

Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

i wouldn't send it but i would mention it - if there's no cover letter then perhaps in the email. explain you've only just received it therefore were unable to include it on your cv

#17 lozoodle

Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

No i would not supply it. No one would hand over a bad written reference so it wont be taken seriously, verbal references are preferred.

#18 froggy1

Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

I'd consider adding the reference to your CV as a hyperlink. Ie: click on that referee's name and the reference pops up. but i love hyperlinks  rolleyes.gif

#19 SeaPrincess

Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:04 PM

QUOTE (tle @ 11/12/2012, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
SeaPrincess, you'd be surpised what kind of references people include with applications. I've culled people from the application process not specifically because of what was written but because the applicant can't be that bright if they don't know enough to exclude a written reference that portrays lazy, unpunctual and dishonest.

Really!?! They deserve to be culled.

#20 PatG

Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

QUOTE (brazen @ 11/12/2012, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i wouldn't send it but i would mention it - if there's no cover letter then perhaps in the email. explain you've only just received it therefore were unable to include it on your cv



If you have time to write an email, you have time to update your CV.

OP did you mean that it would be hard for you to contact the person overseas to ask about including them as a referee or that it would be hard for the company to contact them?  If you can supply an email address (pref. a work one) then as a PP said the company can contact them bypassing you if they want to.  

I don't think it can hurt to include the written reference but I think it would look funny not to also have them listed among your referees on your CV.

#21 Academic

Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

QUOTE (PatG @ 11/12/2012, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OP did you mean that it would be hard for you to contact the person overseas to ask about including them as a referee or that it would be hard for the company to contact them?  If you can supply an email address (pref. a work one) then as a PP said the company can contact them bypassing you if they want to.


I meant it would be difficult for a company to contact her by phone to discuss my reference. Email contact is no problem.

I think I will include her as a referee on my CV, underneath my director so that they are still the number one referee, with a note that her written reference is also attached. I'm leaning towards the idea that including it can't hurt, especially as they already know both me and the referee in question.

Thank you all for your advice, and please cross all your appendages for me!

#22 Queen Yoda

Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

I'd include it, unless it was a few pages long.  Just pop it at the end.  One page, no problem.

#23 Tiger Lilly

Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

I am in HR and get thoroughly annoyed when people can't read simple instructions. However, I don't mind if people include a written reference.

When I ask for a cover letter and resume and all I get is a resume - then I get annoyed and dont read them!

#24 *Lib*

Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

QUOTE (Mexy @ 11/12/2012, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am in HR and get thoroughly annoyed when people can't read simple instructions. However, I don't mind if people include a written reference.

When I ask for a cover letter and resume and all I get is a resume - then I get annoyed and dont read them!

I do the same. If we've asked for a hand written cover letter, and its typed....I don't look at it twice. Shows they can't follow instructions.

#25 LynnyP

Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:22 PM

I don't think it would hurt to include it.  I disregard written references on the whole as they are unreliable.  However I might ask you at interview if I could contact the person if it was a particularly impressive referee.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

The day my daughter almost drowned

We had six adults standing there, so I felt like I could relax a bit. After all, what could go wrong with so much supervision?

Sydney siege survivor names baby after victim Katrina Dawson

A Sydney barrister who survived the Lindt cafe siege has named her newborn daughter after her best friend who died in the tragedy.

Banishing bloat

How to avoid a bloated tummy

Here are some foods to eat in order to escape feeling ghastly and gassy.

The great new picture book for anxious kids

My son is a worrier by nature. I learnt long ago that it was completely pointless to say to him "Don't worry about it!".

Budget stripped more than $15b from families

The combined impact of the two budgets for low and middle income people was "devastating", new analysis by the Australian Council of Social Service shows.

Pregnant women urged to get flu shots

As the winter chill starts to arrive, NSW Health is urging pregnant women to get their flu shots.

65-year-old gives birth to quadruplets

A 65-year-old German woman, who already has 13 children, has given birth to quadruplets.

What you need to know about pregnancy and health insurance

It's not just waiting periods that couples need to consider - there are other factors to consider when thinking about health insurance.

Yummy mummy

Nicole Trunfio breastfeeds baby on Elle magazine cover

Australian model Nicole Trunfio has taken the concept of multitasking to a fashionable new level for Elle Australia.

Warnings after baby girl died while sleeping in bouncer

Parents have been warned about the dangers of letting babies sleep in bouncers and swings following the death of a three-month-old girl.

Coping with fatigue as a parent

Sleep deprivation is a real hazard of caring for a baby. But there are ways to manage the challenges of fatigue better.

A very 21st century issue: parents, parks and smart phones

It's not all the parents, and it's not all the time, but there is often at least one doing it. And sometimes, that 'one' is me.

Appliances

Faulty washing machines linked to house fires

More than 80,000 faulty Samsung washing machines pose a fire threat in homes throughout Australia despite a nationwide recall of the machines.

'I had a lotus birth and I loved it'

Lotus birthing is not all that common, but for a number of women it feels like the most natural thing to do.

7 things you might not know about postnatal depression

Despite its widespread nature, there is still a great amount of mystery surrounding PND - and it's important to try unravelling as much of that as we can.

Is your family's car part of the world's biggest safety recall?

More than 50 million vehicles recalled for potentially lethal airbag fault - is your car affected?

Why drinking water can be deadly for babies

H2O is one of the necessities of life, but for babies a seemingly harmless amount of water can be fatal.

Mother-in-law faceplants during proposal

He had it all planned: a romantic proposal on a windswept beach. The whole family would be there so they'd all be able to celebrate the joyous moment together.

A preschooler suddenly goes mute - and it's not just shyness

When our son stopped talking, our sense of loss was painful and acute.

The mums who ask for a 'wife bonus'

They run their homes like domestic CEOs and work tirelessly to improve their family's social standing. And now, according to a new book, they want an annual perk from their husbands.

Woman shares photo of dimple on breast to warn others of cancer risk

A widely-shared Facebook photograph of a British woman's breast has raised awareness of a more subtle breast cancer symptom.

Starting a family despite a low sperm count

"I'd never really failed a test - how could I fail this particularly manly test?"

It's official: we must better protect our kids from toxic lead exposure

New guidelines have been released, aimed at reducing children's harmful exposure to lead. But they still don't go far enough.

Trouble-shooting toddler social skills

Chances are your toddler's behaviour is all completely normal - but here's how to tackle some common social problems.

Helping your first-born welcome a sibling

We did sigh with joy at the arrival of a royal princess - but, mostly, we sighed with pity at the sight of Prince George being taken to meet her.

Farewell, daytime nap

I've been in denial and I'm not too proud to beg, but it appears I must accept the fact that you have gone. I need to let you go.

The identical triplets who are one in 50 million

The father of identical triplets born in a Texas hospital says his three daughters, including conjoined twins, are "a miracle" sent by God.

Seven questions you should be asking about your health cover

If the last time you assessed your health cover was five years ago, there?s a chance it may no longer suit your needs. To ensure it?s still right for your family, click here for seven questions to ask.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

How to use gas effectively in labour

Many women in labour don't use gas effectively and suffer more side effects than benefits. Here's how to get the most out of this pain relief option.

'He has gastro but that's okay, right?': sick kid etiquette

We cannot place all children who are sick in a bubble till they recover, but we can give other parents a choice about exposing their kids to them.

Ada Nicodemou: 'I can never be completely happy again'

Home and Away actress Ada Nicodemou has opened up about the loss of her stillborn baby.

10 things to consider when you're thinking about trying for a baby

Before you start tracking your menstrual cycle and reading up on the best positions to get pregnant, there are a few other things you may want to consider.

How special surgery and IVF can create a post-vasectomy baby

Cricket legend Glenn McGrath and his second wife Sara are expecting their first child together, thanks to IVF and a delicate surgical sperm retrieval process that helped the couple to conceive.

Belle Gibson's mother 'disgusted and embarrassed'

The mother of disgraced wellness blogger Belle Gibson has accused her daughter of lying about her childhood in an attempt to garner public sympathy.

Doctor's mobile phone 'left inside c-section mum'

A new mum claims a doctor left his mobile phone inside her after delivering her baby via caesarean section.

I'm a mum and I'm following my dreams

I want my kids to know that no matter what happens in life, you can still be who it is that you've always wanted to be.

Those first daycare days

I had this innate 'mum' moment the other day.

'If one person had listened, my life would have been so different'

Katherine's father will die in prison for the horrifying sexual abuse of his daughter. Yet she is the one with the true life sentence.

This new plan undermines breastfeeding and baby health at everyone's expense

Mothers, babies, the health system and the wider society are going to pay the price of this new budget.

Couple to celebrate terminally ill baby's birthday in unique way

Baby Jai Bishop has lived at Starship Hospital for the past seven months, with his parents flying back and forth from Hokitika, 1100km away, to be by his side.

Life On Mars

It's men who need 'retraining', not women

We are all responsible for our own behaviour. Telling victims to harden up is wrong.

Baby Gammy's dad tries to claim charity money

The biological father of baby Gammy has reportedly tried to access charity money raised for the little boy's medical costs.

Where are the childcare places?

It?s all very well to encourage women to work if they choose to, but how can the measures lead to increased workforce participation when women are once again left holding the baby?

The pain of not having babies and not knowing why

After seven years of wishing, hoping, crying, punching pillows and shouting "why me?!", the end result is more than I ever thought possible.

Getting your family finances in order

Whether you're after a new car for a growing family, a bigger house, or are just fixing up your finances, here are the basics on borrowing.

Mum shares graphic selfie to warn against tanning

A mum has shared a graphic photo of her skin cancer treatment as a warning to others.

Does parenthood make us happier?

We can certainly gain higher levels of happiness when we become parents, but the trick is to not get overwhelmed by the pressures of raising our kids.

No, having a dog is not like having a human child

It's obvious these people dote on their pets, but they're barking up the wrong tree.

 

Top baby names

Baby Names

The numbers are in and we can now bring you the 2014 top baby name list for Australia.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.