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printing out copies of school photos?
can you do it?


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#1 -*meh*-

Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

I got the boys school photos back and they fantastic this year.

I had purchased the full pack for both boys, plus the sibling pack but honestly the sibling photo is a bit meh where their individual photos are much better.

Which has left me in a bit of a bind because i had worked out who was going to get what in the photos pack and now everyone wants the singles shots...

if i had of purchased extra shots at the time they would have been $10 according to my list but i don't know if i can purchase after the fact and to be truthful i don't want to pay that price.

Does anyone know if i can scan in the photos and get copies printed off myself if i purchased the pack?

#2 i-candi

Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:12 PM

Our school photographers are really pushing online sales this year. Some classes have got individual little photos with a code on so you can go online and order more photos. I'm sure if I empty DD's bag I'll find her photo/code lol.

Just google the company and see what you can order online.


#3 -*meh*-

Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (i-candi @ 06/12/2012, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Our school photographers are really pushing online sales this year. Some classes have got individual little photos with a code on so you can go online and order more photos. I'm sure if I empty DD's bag I'll find her photo/code lol.

Just google the company and see what you can order online.


i looked on the thing that came back with the photos and there is no shoot code so i am assuming that our school isn't one that is able to do that... and i can't find anything on their site about reprints etc.

On the actual original order form it says that orders after the date will incur a $12 search fee but i don't know if thats just for kids who didn't order on the day but sent in orders after.

#4 MrsLexiK

Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:39 PM

I'm 99% sure that the company will have a copy right. So you could but it technically wouldn't be legal.

#5 solongsuckers

Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

Can you? Yes

Are you allowed to? Probably not

If it were me, would I do it anyway? Yes

Edited by SirDidymus, 06 December 2012 - 08:43 PM.


#6 raven74

Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

It's a breach of copyright.
Why not jsut call them for extra prints or pay a one off fee for a high res images or two which may very well cost you less than ordering extra prints.


#7 namie

Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

QUOTE (SirDidymus @ 06/12/2012, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can you? Yes

Are you allowed to? Probably not

If it were me, would I do it anyway? Yes

Yep.

I don't know if school pics are different, but we got professional photos done which cost a bloody fortune. I wanted a copy of one picture each for my Mum and MIL but we didn't have the $198 per picture, so I took our copy in to a photo shop (a Kodak one I think) and she copied it for me.

I'm sure the photographer would have preferred we didn't, but I got what I wanted for $20-odd instead of $400.

Disclaimer to keep the peace with professional photographers: we did purchase a canvas and two framed pictures but couldn't justify $200 each on one for our mothers.

#8 JustBeige

Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:23 AM

Yes you can do that.

Its not technically a breach of copyright.  You arent copying these to make a commercial concern from them.   You arent claiming to have taken these photos yourself and as such making money from these claims.

All you are doing is copying what you already have in your possession.    

You arent going onto their website and downloading other photos that you havent already paid for.


oh, and you cant get them copied professionally either.  That breaches copyright when the other company makes money off these photos.  (well the other place isnt supposed to)

Edited by JustBeige, 07 December 2012 - 06:24 AM.


#9 jodi

Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:50 AM

QUOTE
Disclaimer to keep the peace with professional photographers: we did purchase a canvas and two framed pictures but couldn't justify $200 each on one for our mothers


huh.gif

I'm going to remember this justification next time I go to the supermarket... "I am not paying for theses chicken fillets, because I already spent too much on the rest of my groceries, ok?"... yes, that should keep the peace.  wacko.gif

#10 Sentient Puddle

Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:58 AM

QUOTE
I'm going to remember this justification next time I go to the supermarket... "I am not paying for theses chicken fillets, because I already spent too much on the rest of my groceries, ok?"... yes, that should keep the peace.
This! Just because you cant "afford" something doesnt mean it is okay to rip someone off as that is exactly what you are doing.  If you dont want professional photos taken in the first place then fine.  But if you do then you have to agree to the conditions governing their copyright. Photographers generally have to earn a living too!

#11 Crinkle cut

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:01 AM

I think it is fair to copy the image if you have paid for it.  Downloading images unpaid for is IMO wrong.

And it is nothing like the chicken fillets.  The photographer  has been paid for their work, and they do not lose stock because someone copies an image they have paid for.

#12 Sentient Puddle

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:06 AM

QUOTE
I think it is fair to copy the image if you have paid for it
In most cases you pay for the print NOT the rights to the image.  Unless you buy the image on disk and only then do you generally own the rights to print off as many images as you like.

Edited by ILBB, 07 December 2012 - 07:10 AM.


#13 Crinkle cut

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:09 AM

QUOTE (ILBB @ 07/12/2012, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In most cases you pay for the print NOT the rights to the image.  Unless you buy the image on disk then you generally own the rights to print off as many images as you like.


I thought you don't need rights to the image unless you are profiting off it??

#14 MrsDamonSalvatore

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:14 AM

if you are going to print them off, you would have to do it at home. i have printed photos off many times at kmart/big w/chemists and everytime there is someone there that the stagg are refusing to print the photos off for because they aren't their own photos iykwim?

#15 Sentient Puddle

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:17 AM

You are talking about different areas of "rights" Maryanne. If I was to take a photo of you in a public place I am within my rights legally to do so without your permission.  If I want to make a commercial gain from that image then it is more what you are talking about.

What we are talking about here is the photographer "owning the  copyright" of their work.  The will own the copyright unless they specifically agree to transfer it to the client.  Some photographers will do this - but many more won't.  Unless the OP paid for the images on disk I will guarantee she has no legal right to print off that image.  Otherwise why would photographers sell packages of multiple images?????  Photographers make profit from prints.

#16 jodi

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:19 AM

QUOTE
And it is nothing like the chicken fillets. The photographer has been paid for their work, and they do not lose stock because someone copies an image they have paid for.


Oh. My.

That 'logic' hurts my head.  Intellectual property (which is what is actually being stolen here) is just as, if not more, valuable than 'stock'.

QUOTE
I thought you don't need rights to the image unless you are profiting off it??


No. That is not the case.

#17 BabyBumbleBee

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:22 AM

Looks like it might be almost time to get some popcorn.

#18 Crinkle cut

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:28 AM

Sorry jodie - my point was that you have paid for the intellectual property.  Obviously some photographers feel that is not the case.  

Even if it is legally or technically wrong, I don't find it morally wrong and would have no qualms copying a print I had paid $200 for.

FTR I simply would not use a photographer who wanted to charge $200 for each extra copy of their work.  It has not increased their workload signficantly, so what are they actually charging for?  You can claim 'intellectual' but if I've already paid for their creativity once, I'm not going to pay for it again.

Copying images you have not paid for at all is another matter entirely, and I wouldn't do that.

Edited by ~maryanne~, 07 December 2012 - 07:33 AM.


#19 Sentient Puddle

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:41 AM

QUOTE
Obviously some photographers feel that is not the case.
It is not a "feeling" Maryanne, it is what would be upheld if it were challenged in a legal setting.  And once again Maryanne - unless you SPECIFICALLY buy the copyright then you dont own the image - you own a print of the image.  Just because you purchase a Ken Done print it doesnt give you the automatic right to take copies of that print!  Just like if you buy a book you dont buy the rights to copy that book.  And the photographer is setting a fee schedule to recover the initial costs of training, equipment, insurance, professional association fees and (shock horror) to pay bills and the mortgage.  That fee schedule might for example make someone buy the images on disk upfront (for an increased cost) or a bigger package initially for a discount.

Edited by ILBB, 07 December 2012 - 07:42 AM.


#20 Crinkle cut

Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:48 AM

QUOTE (ILBB @ 07/12/2012, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is not a "feeling" Maryanne, it is what would be upheld if it were challenged in a legal setting.  And once again Maryanne - unless you SPECIFICALLY buy the copyright then you dont own the image - you own a print of the image.  Just because you purchase a Ken Done print it doesnt give you the automatic right to take copies of that print!  Just like if you buy a book you dont buy the rights to copy that book.  And the photographer is setting a fee schedule to recover the initial costs of training, equipment, insurance, professional association fees and to shoick horror to pay bills and the mortgage.  That fee schedule might for example make someone buy the images on disk upfront (for an increased cost) or a bigger package initially for a discount.


Oh for goodness sakes, plenty of photographers 'feel' once you have paid for the first very expensive print you can do as you like with it. I guess they include the rights to the image in the print price. That is what I meant when I said 'some photographers feel that is not the case' .  

Perhaps I could have worded it differently and said 'obviously some photographers don't include the rights to the image with the print and feel that is fair'

With something like a school photo I'd copy it weather it was legal or not.  With photos I arrange myself I'd just not use a photographer who does not include the rights to the image.

Edited by ~maryanne~, 07 December 2012 - 08:04 AM.


#21 Sentient Puddle

Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:16 AM

Maryanne - you obviously would use a photographer who would sell you the copyright - but take note they are building the lack of printing profits into their sitting fee/disk fee.  And professionally I have not come across any photographer who gives away copyright just because they feel like it. It is quite specifically dealt with in a contract - which you sign when you deal with a professional photographer.

Just also take not that if you do book a photographer and buy the images on disk - dont then print them at K-mart - use a pro-lab which the public has access too - otherwise your images you paid good money for will end up looking like they were printed at K-mart and in the end doesnt represent good value for money.

Edited by ILBB, 07 December 2012 - 08:18 AM.


#22 Heather11

Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:53 AM

I have searched everywhere on my children's photos, the original order form and the website and found nothing about a copyright on the photos.

#23 CallMeFeral

Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:15 AM

QUOTE (jodi @ 07/12/2012, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That 'logic' hurts my head.  Intellectual property (which is what is actually being stolen here) is just as, if not more, valuable than 'stock'.


It's not that complicated. Steal stock = the seller loses something that they could profit from selling to someone else. Steal copyright = the seller is no worse off than if the person just hadn't ordered another copy. Not saying the 2nd case is right, but it's disingenuous to suggest that it's the same thing.

I think most photographers build their breakeven and basic profit into their pricing for the sitting and initial prints. I seriously doubt that they are relying, for their profit, on repeat orders of the old prints. If they are they are fools.

#24 Carabosse

Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:27 AM

QUOTE (~maryanne~ @ 07/12/2012, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh for goodness sakes, plenty of photographers 'feel' once you have paid for the first very expensive print you can do as you like with it.


I don't know any pro photographer that 'feels' like that unless they have supplied hi res digital images for that purpose.

You are also not factoring in quality control of the photographers work. That is another reason prints are often purchased through the photographer and why many don't  offer digital images. (Obviously school photos might be a little different in this case)

Most school photo/santa photo/low end portrait companies offer images on disc for a fee. This then enables you to generate your own prints.

Edited by Carabosse, 07 December 2012 - 11:28 AM.


#25 Carabosse

Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:35 AM

QUOTE (CallMeAliG @ 07/12/2012, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's not that complicated. Steal stock = the seller loses something that they could profit from selling to someone else. Steal copyright = the seller is no worse off than if the person just hadn't ordered another copy.


As someone who deals with image copyright via work every day, it most certainly is stealing in the same way as stealing the chicken fillet. The 'seller' can potentially be much worse off once an image that belongs to them is shared and copied and spread via the internet or printed (School photos prob not to this extreme laughing2.gif)
Hardly disengenuous.




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