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What's more selfish


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#1 nobodyreally

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:11 PM

Going anon.

What is more selfish, doing something you know will hurt somebody you love and they've asked you not to do it and you've promised a long time ago not to do it... or staying and dragging them down with you, wearing on them with your problems?

Is it sometimes right to hurt someone in the short term so they can get on with their lives after awhile? I always said I would never break a promise to the person I love, and I haven't yet, but what if its bad for them?

Both ways hurt me I only just want to do right by them.



#2 Guest_Sunnycat_*

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

Sounds tough OP. I do believe sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. If you are not in love with the person and they have asked you not to leave then I wouldn't stay, I would set them free.

I hope it is nothing too serious and you are not suicidal or anything. Please seek help if you need it.

#3 raone

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:15 PM

Depends on the situation. But it sounds like you would be taking a decision out of someone elses hands an that isn't fair.

#4 nup

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

I'm ignoring your scenarios as I'm confused by them, but I think failing to negotiate is selfish.

#5 bakesgirls

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

It's hard to know OP because there's not much information to go off.

Don't do anying rash OP. It sounds as though you could do with someone to talk to.

Edited by bakesgirls, 01 December 2012 - 11:30 PM.


#6 nobodyreally

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

If I didn't love them it would be easy because I wouldn't be so afraid of making them sad or hurting them.

I worry that whatever I do I will hurt them and that I might twirl issues around to justify anything I decide to do. I don't  know what is truly best. I would just like a way to know what is truly in their best interest because then I would do that.

#7 ms flib

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:20 PM

It sounds like you need to get perpective on this. Sometimes we feel that people would be better off without us for all the wrong reasons.

If you love this person, then you need to find a way to work this out without hurting them.

Can you tell us more? Maybe we can help? Are you OK?

Otherwise see a counsellor or your GP or talk to a close friend before making any big decisions. Of call Lifeline etc.

All the best

#8 Guest_Sunnycat_*

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:20 PM

QUOTE (nobodyreally @ 01/12/2012, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I didn't love them it would be easy because I wouldn't be so afraid of making them sad or hurting them.

I worry that whatever I do I will hurt them and that I might twirl issues around to justify anything I decide to do. I don't  know what is truly best. I would just like a way to know what is truly in their best interest because then I would do that.


It's  hard for us to answer without any information.

What is the best decision for you?

#9 raone

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:22 PM

Is this a you think he would be better off without you situation or a you don't feel happy in the relationship situation?

#10 nobodyreally

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

I don't know if I am okay or not.

I used to know what I wanted and not do it because I promised them I wouldn't. They said it would hurt them too much and I figured I owed them that much, I didn't want to make them sad, and in time hell they'd probably change their mind anyway and then I'd have an out.

They never did change their mind.

I don't know if I'm getting better or getting more selfish. I don't want to be without them. I love everything about being with them. I can actually see a future. But is that what's good for them or just what's good for me?

#11 Guest_Sunnycat_*

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

Maybe some sort of counselling would help you?

#12 raone

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

I agree with sunnycat sounds like you have alot of thoughts and feelings you need work out with someone not involved in the situation.

#13 nobodyreally

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

The hilarious thing is I'm fairly up from where I was for a long time. At least I was used to down there!

I'm still an awfully messed up person. Would they be better off single? Able to get with someone less physically damaged and mentally odd? They could do soooo much better. I want to make sure that I'm not just being a vampire.

#14 Dawarr

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:44 PM

Warning: discussion of suicidal ideation.


OP, I hope I am wrong about this, but to me your post reads like 'someone' who is considering suicide. Perhaps 'someone' who has considered it for a long time, but has tried to not think about it because it would hurt their partner. But now feels the partner is more hurt by them being around.

I'm really sorry if I've read this wrong. But if I'm right, even vaguely, please please please talk to a professional IRL. This sort of thinking is not necessarily the real "truth" of the situation- depression and suicidal ideation can cloud the best of times, and really mess with a persons judgement and ability to make helpful decisions.

Good on you for starting to reach out though original.gif

#15 Bob-the-skull

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (KeepTheFaith @ 01/12/2012, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Warning: discussion of suicidal ideation.


OP, I hope I am wrong about this, but to me your post reads like 'someone' who is considering suicide. Perhaps 'someone' who has considered it for a long time, but has tried to not think about it because it would hurt their partner. But now feels the partner is more hurt by them being around.

I'm really sorry if I've read this wrong. But if I'm right, even vaguely, please please please talk to a professional IRL. This sort of thinking is not necessarily the real "truth" of the situation- depression and suicidal ideation can cloud the best of times, and really mess with a persons judgement and ability to make helpful decisions.

Good on you for starting to reach out though original.gif


this was my first thought as well.

I hope i am wrong but please if this person could be intending self harm and feels that they are only not doing it to hurt someone then they need to get some help IRL.

They need to ring life line, mental health crisis team or someone who can come and be with them whilst these feelings are so strong and they can get in to see a professional.

#16 nobodyreally

Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:58 PM

Is it normal to see everything sort of split-screened? I swear everything is split down the middle and I can see both realities and both look equally plausible all the time.

Things I am scared of are
a) completely ridiculous
and
b) completely plausible

at the same time.

I am normal looking and that makes sense in one way okay sort of just person-looking. Oh and I am also hideous. Things are pretty much okay and things will never be okay.

Have you ever had a panic attack while you knew it wasn't scary? Or refused to go to the mall because you'll be the ugliest thing there and people will be afraid of looking at you while you could simultaneously think "no that isn't right probably no one will notice you at all also objectively you aren't that astonishing-looking."

People always talk about go with your gut or trust your feelings and that doesn't make any sense. I almost never have just one set of feelings.

#17 Dawarr

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:01 PM

Just in case: the number for Lifeline is 13 11 14. Calling them does not 'fix' the situation, but it can be a step in the right direction.

#18 nobodyreally

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

QUOTE (KeepTheFaith @ 02/12/2012, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just in case: the number for Lifeline is 13 11 14. Calling them does not 'fix' the situation, but it can be a step in the right direction.



For a long time I knew exactly what I wanted to  do and I only didn't because I promised not to. It hurt so bad to keep that promise but if it only hurts me I don't care.

I can't abide it hurting them though.

And now like I said I'm a little more up and I can see futures and things and that actually scares me. Isn't that screwed up? To be scared I don't always 100% have my exit plan. To worry what's wrong that I can't soothe on that image anymore and that I can go weeks without thinking of it.

I'm pretty sure that's not normal. Now I'm actually frightened that I don't always want what I wanted anymore. But I'm not sure if that's good.

I don't need to call Lifeline, I feel absurd using their time, what would I say "help, I'm scared, I'm not sure I want to kill myself anymore and I don't know what to do!!!"



#19 ALittleBitter

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

OP, I'm so sorry you are having a tough time at the moment.

I can relate to alot of what you are saying, if you ever just want to have a chat feel free to PM me anytime.

And please, look after yourself. Lifeline definitely won't think you are absurd for calling them.

#20 Bob-the-skull

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

they are not just there for those that are on the brink of self harm... they are there to help people who are having a hard time and need someone to just talk to so they can help you talk about what is happening in your head.

This is for everyone, please never feel like you would be wasting their time!

#21 Dawarr

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

OP, that sounds typical for someone who has experienced what is called an "invalidating environment". Most typically (but may not be your situation, so again, my apologies if I get it wrong), this occurs when a child has been abused.

Basically, the child learns that, although they have feelings on the abuse (be it physical, sexual or emotional), their feelings are "invalidated" by the perpetrator of the abuse, who effectively tells the child that THEY are wrong for feeling this way.

As an adult, it can mean that 'you' have thoughts and feelings you think are 'real', but you have not learnt to trust your ability to accurately judge the situation. So 'you' have multiple conflicting thoughts, all of which cause you to doubt yourself and your ability to 'know' anything.

Again, if this in any way sounds familiar to you, please seek help IRL.

#22 Dawarr

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:21 PM

Ah, OP, I think I'm getting my head around where you are at.

I could tell you that Lifeline are there precisely to help people such as yourself, and that you deserve help, and a future, and I think you might struggle with that idea. A lot.

I think you are very frightened of losing your 'escape hatch'. Perhaps it has always been there, in the back of your mind, as a safety net, just in case things got too much. And now, instead of getting worse, things are getting better, meaning that you have less reason to keep the 'escape hatch' option- and this leaves you feeling like you are losing your safety net.

Do you have a counsellor, or doctor, who you can speak with?

#23 nobodyreally

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:32 PM

QUOTE (KeepTheFaith @ 02/12/2012, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you are very frightened of losing your 'escape hatch'. Perhaps it has always been there, in the back of your mind, as a safety net, just in case things got too much. And now, instead of getting worse, things are getting better, meaning that you have less reason to keep the 'escape hatch' option- and this leaves you feeling like you are losing your safety net.


Yes. This. With a side of not being sure if I am becoming more okay or just more selfish. If it's true I can't trust how I've been feeling all this time (this is years remember) I can't trust how I am feeling now either. Am I dressing up draining the life out of people trying to help me?

If I had done it four and a half years ago would they be in a totally different, better place by now? Would everyone?

I had a strange childhood but not an abusive one really. Mostly as far as invalidating I only remember being told there was nothing to be afraid of, which at the time was actually untrue and there was plenty to be afraid of and I was aware of it.

Other stuff has happened between childhood and now and I don't know if it was abusive or if I'm spinning. I don't think it was all malicious it was just exactly what I didn't need, and I ripped along the seams?

I don't have anyone to speak with I haven't wanted to look for that but maybe that is weird too. I am just trying to think tonight, sorry for the self-indulgent thread.

Edited by nobodyreally, 01 December 2012 - 11:34 PM.


#24 Guest_Sunnycat_*

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

Please, please speak to someone, please call Lifeline.

#25 Dawarr

Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

You are placing an awful weight on yourself, trying to work out whether people would be better off with or without you. I would suggest, scary as this may be to hear, that this is just as much THEIR choice as it is yours. And 'they' (in particular your partner) have chosen to stay. That says a lot about what your partner values in you, and your relationship, even if you are unable to see it.

Right now, it is really important that you focus on what you can do for yourself. Again, probably not where you want to direct your attention (well, possibly not in the context of "being kind to yourself"), but it is so important. You are, ironically, in a risky situation now that you feel somewhat better. And I'm guessing that 'better' feels quite strange, at times. But at least you know it is possible.

Sorry if this is starting to sound like a ramble- and please feel free to discard whatever I get wrong.

Do you have someone, a professional, you can talk to IRL?

Edited by KeepTheFaith, 01 December 2012 - 11:49 PM.





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