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New publication on immunisations


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#1 liveworkplay

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:00 AM

The Australian academy of science have just released a new booklet about immunisations entitled "the science of immunisation" It can be downloaded from the link on their homepage (on my phn so can copy the link, sorry) I am off to read it now. News reports are saying.g it was developed to hopefully educate tbd public about vaccinations in light of the growing numbers of conscientious objectors. Will be interesting to see if it makes a difference as I know a lot will label it "scientific propaganda" rolleyes.gif

#2 SeaPrincess

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:04 AM

Do you think they'll read it?

#3 dadwasathome

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:05 AM

This is very important information - the link is http://www.science.org.au/policy/immunisation.html

Much better this factual document than googling and stumbling onto the Anti Vaccination Network or worse

Edited by dadathome, 26 November 2012 - 08:06 AM.


#4 SeaPrincess

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:11 AM

Don't get me wrong - I'd like to see doctors handing the document out to be read and discussed with conscientious objectors.  I just think that if someone's looking for a reason not to vaccinate, they aren't going to seek this out.

#5 Guest_AllegraM_*

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

You can lead an anti-vaxxer to the science but you can't make them read..

#6 dadwasathome

Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:24 AM

QUOTE (shmach @ 26/11/2012, 09:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't get me wrong - I'd like to see doctors handing the document out to be read and discussed with conscientious objectors.  I just think that if someone's looking for a reason not to vaccinate, they aren't going to seek this out.


I agree. But science in general is so (unreasonably) maligned these days that something needs to be done. Barring contraindications, a decision not to immunise at all is a profoundly irrational choice, and that really worries me.


#7 ML0808

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:02 AM

Personally, I've got two fully vaccinated children, and in the past three years they have both contracted measles, rubella and now have the chicken pox. They caught each disease off children that were also fully vaccinated, who in turn caught it off other vaccinated children. (Yes, I do know that for a fact.) When I've questioned their doctors about how this is even possible, they just shrug and tell me that it's "no big deal" if a child contracts these diseases.
Really?? That's not what they tell you when you go to get the vaccinations done!
The only upside to all of this is that now I KNOW that my kids are immunised because their bodies did it naturally.
Plus, immunisations only last about 20 years, which means that this whole generation will be vulnerable to contracting these diseases right about the time they're starting to have children. Most people don't know that immunisations wear off, so we're going to have an epidemic on our hands.
Ironically, the "stupid" parents that allowed their children to get sick when they were young, will suddenly look like the only ones with any common sense.

#8 dadwasathome

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:07 AM

QUOTE (ML0808 @ 26/11/2012, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ironically, the "stupid" parents that allowed their children to get sick when they were young, will suddenly look like the only ones with any common sense.


Is would be useful if you could post some eveidence to back up this statement - I'm not aware of any scientific evidence (ie. real, rational, evidence) which supports your claim.

Immunity resulting from contracting diseases does not necessarily provide any greater coverage than vaccination. I personally suffered natural rubella twice and natural measles three times. Luckily it was only for the rubella I needed to be resuscitated on the way to hospital


#9 EsmeLennox

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:07 AM

Sounds like you need to read the booklet ML0808.

#10 Gumbette

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:24 AM

QUOTE (ML0808 @ 26/11/2012, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I've got two fully vaccinated children, and in the past three years they have both contracted measles, rubella and now have the chicken pox. They caught each disease off children that were also fully vaccinated, who in turn caught it off other vaccinated children. (Yes, I do know that for a fact.) When I've questioned their doctors about how this is even possible, they just shrug and tell me that it's "no big deal" if a child contracts these diseases.
Really?? That's not what they tell you when you go to get the vaccinations done!
The only upside to all of this is that now I KNOW that my kids are immunised because their bodies did it naturally.
Plus, immunisations only last about 20 years, which means that this whole generation will be vulnerable to contracting these diseases right about the time they're starting to have children. Most people don't know that immunisations wear off, so we're going to have an epidemic on our hands.
Ironically, the "stupid" parents that allowed their children to get sick when they were young, will suddenly look like the only ones with any common sense.


Really Meryl?  I'm impressed, you were able to pinpoint exactly who made your children sick, and in turn who had made those children sick too.  You're a wasted talent, maybe you should get a job at the Centre of Infectious Diseases.  

I saw DS's paediatrician on Wednesday and he spoke to me for 45 minutes about stupid parents letting their children get sick and the epidemic they have on their hands overseas due to Dr Wakefields' falsified research.

You need a new GP.

#11 Sif

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

QUOTE
I personally suffered natural rubella twice and natural measles three times. Luckily it was only for the rubella I needed to be resuscitated on the way to hospital


Yep, and I assume you have been vaccinated against rubella as well, so the vaccinations left you no better off...

#12 dadwasathome

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

QUOTE (Gumbette @ 26/11/2012, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Really Meryl?


I was thinking the same thing. The AVN's new line seems to be "my kids are fully vaccinated but you shouldn't vaccinate yours because...."


#13 Guest_3Keiki_*

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:31 AM

QUOTE (AllegraM @ 26/11/2012, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can lead an anti-vaxxer to the science but you can't make them read..



substitue read for think and we are on the money

#14 dadwasathome

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:33 AM

QUOTE (Sif @ 26/11/2012, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yep, and I assume you have been vaccinated against rubella as well, so the vaccinations left you no better off...


My children have been vaccinated as there is no reason for them to suffer these vaccine preventable diseases. The rational evidence clearly indicates that the risk of side effects (as opposed to possible minor adverse reactions) is massively lower than the risks arising from contracting the diseases.

#15 ML0808

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

QUOTE (Gumbette @ 26/11/2012, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Really Meryl?  I'm impressed, you were able to pinpoint exactly who made your children sick, and in turn who had made those children sick too.  You're a wasted talent, maybe you should get a job at the Centre of Infectious Diseases.  

I saw DS's paediatrician on Wednesday and he spoke to me for 45 minutes about stupid parents letting their children get sick and the epidemic they have on their hands overseas due to Dr Wakefields' falsified research.

You need a new GP.


No need to be b**chy. Yes, I DO know. My children got it from two children in the street, who got it from a friend at school. And you may have spoken to your pediatrician for 45 minutes about "stupid" parents (good use of the doctors time by the way! cclap.gif ), but I've spoken for HOURS to the two drug reps in my family about the stupid doctors who will tell their patients anything to get the free dinners and deep sea fishing trips offered by them. I've also had doctors who will sit with a medical book in front of them because they don't know what a cold is, doctors who write out antibiotic scripts for asthma, and one who, upon seeing my son's adverse reaction to one medication, advised that I give him MORE because that's what he'd been "told to say"! As for the children who gave my kids chicken pox, their mother is a nurse and she had to come to ME to diagnose them because she didn't know the symptoms, the duration, or how to treat it! (Of course, by then my kids were already infected, so no, I couldn't have prevented them getting sick!)
Clearly I'm not against vaccinations. But from the conversations that I've had with doctors, there are a lot of bad batches being given to children, and they're not even reporting the incidents to the drug companies so that they can do anything about it! (and yes, I do know this, because they told me that it wasn't necessary to tell them.)
Be smug all you want. It doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

#16 dadwasathome

Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:53 AM

QUOTE (ML0808 @ 26/11/2012, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Clearly I'm not against vaccinations. But from the conversations that I've had with doctors, there are a lot of bad batches being given to children, and they're not even reporting the incidents to the drug companies so that they can do anything about it! (and yes, I do know this, because they told me that it wasn't necessary to tell them.)


Please provide evidence of these claims. If there are bad batches, why aren't these being notified more widely if doctors are aware of them? Why are the doctors being negligent in their reporting? If they aren't reporting it are they happy to allow children to be harmed, which is what they're doing if there are in fact such cases. Surely harming children in this way is a criminal act?

If you have evidence of this, please report it as it is everyone's interest to make the already extremely safe vaccination absolutely as safe as possible.

#17 ML0808

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:05 AM

QUOTE (dadathome @ 26/11/2012, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please provide evidence of these claims. If there are bad batches, why aren't these being notified more widely if doctors are aware of them? Why are the doctors being negligent in their reporting? If they aren't reporting it are they happy to allow children to be harmed, which is what they're doing if there are in fact such cases. Surely harming children in this way is a criminal act?

If you have evidence of this, please report it as it is everyone's interest to make the already extremely safe vaccination absolutely as safe as possible.


What is it with all of you abusing me like I'm some stupid hippie who doesn't know any better? I had my children vaccinated. I'm NOT against vaccinations. I didn't get anything I know off the internet or out of a booklet, and my name's not Meryl!
I know there are bad batches because my children's doctors (they have a few) have ALL said "Sometimes you get a bad batch. It's no big deal. They'll be over it in a couple of weeks. It happens all the time". It's not a theory. It's a direct quote.
But I guess that's not enough for all of you. I guess if someone's opinion deviates even slightly from yours they must be an idiot, because you all know all there is to know about everything. You all need to get a life. I'm done with this ridiculous site! waves.gif

#18 Gumbette

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (ML0808 @ 26/11/2012, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And you may have spoken to your pediatrician for 45 minutes about "stupid" parents (good use of the doctors time by the way! cclap.gif ),


He spoke to me about it, I didn't pin him down for 45 minutes, it happens to be something he's very passionate about and speaks to all his patients about it in length, now who's being b**chy?


QUOTE
about the stupid doctors who will tell their patients anything to get the free dinners and deep sea fishing trips offered by them.


Not sure why they would offer my paediatrician dinner or fishing trips as he doesn't give vaccinations himself, but yeah okay   wacko.gif   I actually worked for an orthpaedics company - the *trips* they took them on were for surgeons who directly used their products, not for those simply referring, and TBH that was 8 years ago, I'm not even sure if those types of trips are on offer anymore, but you have TWO drug reps in your family, so I guess you would know.

QUOTE
I've also had doctors who will sit with a medical book in front of them because they don't know what a cold is, doctors who write out antibiotic scripts for asthma, and one who, upon seeing my son's adverse reaction to one medication, advised that I give him MORE because that's what he'd been "told to say"!


Refer to my previous post - you really do need a new GP.


QUOTE
As for the children who gave my kids chicken pox, their mother is a nurse and she had to come to ME to diagnose them because she didn't know the symptoms, the duration, or how to treat it!


Wow, you really are a wasted resource.

#19 seepi

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:23 AM

I always wonder about people who are anti vaccination,and whine a lot about stupid doctors having no idea every time they see them.

If you hate doctors and they are always wrong and you know more than them, then why go to the doctor. Just opt out and treat everything at home with wheatgrass or something.

I mean I'm not sold on naturopaths, so I dont' go to see them - I think it would be wierd if I continually took my whole family to a naturopath, but disregarded all their advice and went on and on about how they know nothing.

#20 Jane Jetson

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:25 AM

QUOTE (ML0808 @ 26/11/2012, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They caught each disease off children that were also fully vaccinated, who in turn caught it off other vaccinated children. (Yes, I do know that for a fact.)  When I've questioned their doctors about how this is even possible, they just shrug and tell me that it's "no big deal" if a child contracts these diseases.


So basically what you're saying is that your children were among the unlucky few for whom vaccination did not result in immunity - that is, no seroconversion. In other words, the rest of us have a responsibility to vaccinate to protect childen like yours.

You also appear to be saying that individual doctors... oh, such as perhaps the ones who recommend homoeopathy instead of vaccination... are not infallible? Along with a load of guff which clearly shows no understanding of the rules and regulations surrounding incentivisation for health professionals? How interesting. It's almost as though one should rely on a vast body of research for our information, instead of one individual health provider.

QUOTE (ML0808 @ 26/11/2012, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Plus, immunisations only last about 20 years, which means that this whole generation will be vulnerable to contracting these diseases right about the time they're starting to have children. Most people don't know that immunisations wear off, so we're going to have an epidemic on our hands.
Ironically, the "stupid" parents that allowed their children to get sick when they were young, will suddenly look like the only ones with any common sense.


Sounds to me like a strong argument for booster shots! Good idea. Let's communicate to adults that they need *more* immunisation. I like the way you think.

#21 ShopgirlX

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (ML0808 @ 26/11/2012, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Most people don't know that immunisations wear off, so we're going to have an epidemic on our hands.


Most people don't know that?  Are you for real?

And I'd also love a show of hands from vaxxers who actually think vaxxing will prevent their child from getting any of those ilnesses... at. all.  Ever.

Off to find a good sturdy brick wall....

#22 Mrs Dinosaurus

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:29 AM

Love the new ad/booklet.

Very worried about the stats given about the increase in AVs.

Love Seepi original.gif



#23 Mrs Dinosaurus

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:32 AM

QUOTE (shopgirl76 @ 26/11/2012, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Most people don't know that?  Are you for real?

And I'd also love a show of hands from vaxxers who actually think vaxxing will prevent their child from getting any of those ilnesses... at. all.  Ever.

Off to find a good sturdy brick wall....


I think vaccinating will save my kids lives if/when they are exposed to life-threatening illnesses such as measles.

I don't think they wont get them. At all. Ever.


#24 TheWanderer

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

QUOTE (seepi @ 26/11/2012, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you hate doctors and they are always wrong and you know more than them, then why go to the doctor. Just opt out and treat everything at home with wheatgrass or something.


Not really much you can do about the medical equivalent of scab labour. Just like those who are happy to reap the rewards of workplace reforms that are fought for by those around but don't want shoulder any of the effort, these people are happy to enjoy the benefits of the relatively disease free society we have without wanting to risk the side effects... which are rarer and and far less severe than if the illnesses that we are protecting against were left to run rampant through the population unchecked.

#25 PrincessPeach

Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:54 AM

If anyone wants some evidence that vaccinations do work to reduce these diseases just do a search on smallpox.

Sorry - the new publication is quite a comprehensive document! Covers a lot of the myths.

Edited - so it makes sense!

Edited by PrincessPeach, 26 November 2012 - 10:57 AM.





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