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Rental Property dillemma
carpet problems .. pls help Small Update JAN 2013


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#1 ~elle~

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:06 PM

Tennants have left multiple bright red stains on the carpet in two bedrooms--- right in the middle of the rooms , so very noticeable.

Carpet cleaning has not fixed it and the Agent (who I'm pretty mad with) has only supplied one quote regarding replacement (when I specifically asked for several)... in which he (Carpet quoting person) specifically says these carpets cannot be patched to repair the stain damage.

He quotes for replaceing the carpets ( ie the whole carpet in the room ).
Seems straight forward to me Tennants pay for the damage as per the quotes.

Now the agent is telling me the stain are only an Xfactor?Magical-no-name percentage of the whole carpet area. And wants me to tell her a sum that I would accept in repayment of the damage.

How can anyone be expected to come up with a figure like that????

Can anyone offer any advice please?????

Small Update - Jan 13.

Well the tenants have been out since the end of Oct and are now accusing the Real Estate Property Manager of photoshopping the stains onto photos.

She has since ( in late NOV) taken them to the property and physically shown them and they are both crying foul - suggesting that it is spilled red bull.

Bull****.

I went with the $100 per stain as that was my absolute bottom line - I have the quotes for replacement and removal of the carpet - but the agent says I will never get that. I have statements saying repair is not possible and statement from the contracted carpet cleaner.

They have until Monday (the tennants) it sign a form saying they release the damaged amount from their bond. If they do this I get the $500 plus the amount that they have not paid for their outstanding water bill. They then will recieve over $900 from their remaining bond.

Otherwise it all goes to the tribunal and we have to be heard infront of a Magistrate(????) and if he says what I want is reasonable, they will release the bond money, split as above.
Has anyone gone before a Bond Tribunal / magistrate before. The Agencey want to charge me $75 per hour until it's finalised.

I think I remember something last year or the year before - but can't remember any names or hat section it was in.

Theagency say they will hand over the paperwork so I can go in there myself - does anyone else have any helpful advice on how to present myself and the statements in the best way???

Edited by ~elle~, 12 January 2013 - 12:14 PM.


#2 FeralCrazyMum

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:11 PM

Well, it would depend on the age and state of the carpets before the red stains.

If they were brand new, you'd certainly have a better argument for the bond covering most of the amount. If the carpets weren't in pristine condition, then the amount would probably be reduced.

I can't see anyway you'll get money out of the old tenants beyond the bond money though. Do you have insurance that covers this if the bond money doesn't?




#3 galba

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:11 PM


I was under the impression that the tenants only need to pay for repair/replacement of the actual damage - so say 10% of the room area so 10% of the new carpet price.



#4 BetteBoop

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

The value of carpets on a rental property depreciates - for tax purposes - which has an impact on the amount you would get from a Tribunal.

Basically within 7 years of it being laid, the carpets are considered to have no value. That doesn't mean you'll get no money for the stains, but it's a much smaller amount than it would be if they were new.

For example, if the carpets are 7 years old or older, you might get compensation of $50 per stain (I just pulled that figure out of the air) depending on the size and location of the stains. This is purely to compensate you, not to replace the carpet as they were probably due to be replaced by then.

If the carpets were brand new, you would probably get close to the whole amount of replacement costs if the tenants stained them.

My advice is to leave the carpets as they are, stains and all. You can still accept a negotiated amount of compensation from the previous tenants so I would expect this. Get carpet cleaning done and try to minimise the appearance of the stains.

The next tenants will probably be happy they don't have to worry about brand new carpet. Carpets in a rental property are bound to be stained.

Edited by BetteBoop, 20 November 2012 - 08:18 PM.


#5 JRA

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

It sucks. It is one of the worst things a tenant can do, and get away with, as far as I am concerned.

It p*sses me off massively

#6 Drowningnotwaving

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

How old is the carpet? How long we're they there?

#7 ~elle~

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

Tennants have been in for 6  months.
Carpets were perfect - not a mark.

Previous tennants were in for 1 yr.
No marks.
Carpets was installed at this point.



#8 Almost*four

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:18 PM

Carpets are covered under your home contents insurance under accidental damage.  Found that out when DS decided to splash food dye around!

#9 Kristina13

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

Not much help I know but this is the exact reason we bought our rental property - it had wooden floors or tiles throughout.....

Edited by Kristina13, 20 November 2012 - 08:24 PM.


#10 Drowningnotwaving

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:24 PM

Ok first I assume you have landlord insurance?

Which brings me to second point - do you make sure they have insurance (contents insurance with liability insurance attached)?

#11 missylou

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:25 PM

QUOTE (darcystarflight @ 20/11/2012, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Carpets are covered under your home contents insurance under accidental damage.  Found that out when DS decided to splash food dye around!



That was not the case for us.  Insurance company told us that because the stain was caused by something in a "portable container" our household insurance did not cover it.  Fortunately damage to our carpet (caused by a tradesman) was covered by his personal liability insurance and our brand new carpet was totally replaced.

#12 Stellajoy

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:28 PM

you can't charge them for the whole replacement cost, you have to negotiate with them on a % figure maybe based on the cost of the current carpet at depreciation?

#13 ~elle~

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:33 PM

I have landlords insurance - I don't know the excess off the top of my head - will have to find the paperwork.

#14 Shellby

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE
I was under the impression that the tenants only need to pay for repair/replacement of the actual damage - so say 10% of the room area so 10% of the new carpet price.


This was my impression also.

I had a friend who sliced a new counter in a house (didn't use a cutting board while cutting a tomato) and the landlord took him to tribunal, as the slice only damaged something like 5% of the counter top he only had to pay 5% of the price of a new counter top. Think it was $150.


#15 MrsLexiK

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE (Kristina13 @ 20/11/2012, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not much help I know but this is the exact reason we bought our rental property - it had wooden floors or tiles throughout.....

My heel went through one of our boards in our rental.

As someone who was a tenant it wouldn't cross my mind that I wouldn't be responsible for the whole thing I damaged. Ie a whole room of carpet, a whole bench top if I ruined part if it, a whole wall to be reprinted if I put a hole in it etc.

#16 cinderellainsydney

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

This won't help you with your problem, but Mum has put in carpet 'tiles' in her investment unit. Not sure if this is the right name for this, but they are carpet pieces installed in squares, so this means when there is a worn area eg hallway or badly stained area, you just replaced the squares affected. It's great - she replaces damaged ones regularly, it works out to be less expensive, and the carpet always looks new for the next tenant!  

It looks just like ordinary carpet - there are no gaps between the pieces. It might be a good way to go for the future.

#17 ~elle~

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:43 PM

What crap - my excess will most likely be more than whatever dollars I can negotiate.

I am crap at negotiating and am peed off that I'm negotiating with my own agent that I'm bloody paying to manage the place.



#18 BetteBoop

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

QUOTE (~elle~ @ 20/11/2012, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What crap - my excess will most likely be more than whatever dollars I can negotiate.

I am crap at negotiating and am peed off that I'm negotiating with my own agent that I'm bloody paying to manage the place.


OP, you need to just name a figure. This is a negotiation process. What do you think is fair?

You don't need proof. It's not a court.

If your intention is to have the carpets replaced, then it might help you to get a quote or two to understand how much you'll look at paying. If the carpets are near new, then request most of the cost.

You have no obligation to claim this on your insurance. And even if you do, there is every chance the insurance company will chase the tenants for the money. Just by agreeing to something from you, doesn't mean they won't have to pay anything more if you bring an insurance company into the mix.

Remember that Tribunals are very adhoc. Outcomes are not published and each decision is made on the day, by the panel/magistrate of the day. There is no such thing as precedence in a Tribunal.

What that means is regardless of what happened to other people who had carpet stains, you can get an entirely different outcome.

I would also put the wind up your agent and ask them exactly what you're paying them for. They should be in a position to give you some advice on what the industry standard or common practice would be regarding carpet replacement.



#19 Kristina13

Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE (MrsLexiK @ 20/11/2012, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My heel went through one of our boards in our rental.

As someone who was a tenant it wouldn't cross my mind that I wouldn't be responsible for the whole thing I damaged. Ie a whole room of carpet, a whole bench top if I ruined part if it, a whole wall to be reprinted if I put a hole in it etc.

Yes I knew someone would come up with some example of wooden floor damage and of course , every type of floor covering can be damaged in some way - it's just that carpet staining -and damage is oh so obvious and much more likely esp in a rental ( says she who has carpet in her own home which looks shocking!)

#20 casime

Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:34 AM

QUOTE
As someone who was a tenant it wouldn't cross my mind that I wouldn't be responsible for the whole thing I damaged. Ie a whole room of carpet, a whole bench top if I ruined part if it, a whole wall to be reprinted if I put a hole in it etc.


I agree with this.  This baffles me.   If you damage a part of something that means the whole thing must be replaced to repair that damage, why wouldn't you be liable for the whole cost?

#21 lafonda

Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:11 AM

A couple of years ago we left a blue Curash baby wash stain on the carpet. $100 was the compensation the landlord received.

#22 Holidayromp

Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:38 AM

The rules are in place so LL don't profit from wear and tear on the carpet or damage to walls etc at the expense of the tenant.

We had one such LL that demanded a wall that was already chipped, faded, paint peeling be re-painted at our cost  mad.gif   On top of that they wanted other painting done at our cost.  They went ahead got it all done because they wanted to freshen up the place and tried charge us for it.

Went to tribunal and they ruled against the LL.

I am all for paying for any damage caused but not when the LL wants to profit out of it.

#23 Holidayromp

Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:44 AM

QUOTE (casime @ 21/11/2012, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with this.  This baffles me.   If you damage a part of something that means the whole thing must be replaced to repair that damage, why wouldn't you be liable for the whole cost?


That is the basic fundamental of insurance to put you back in the same position you were before the loss.  So if the LL gets a whole new carpet for a stain in one section they are actually in a better position than they were before the loss so therefore should contribute towards the replacement.  

Anyway just because a carpet is stained doesn't render it unusable - it is a stain.  I would claim what you can from the tenants see if you can use that money towards some sort of stain treatment and see how it goes and just leave it at that and make sure you note the stain on the incoming report.

From what you said that carpet would be about 18months old so still plenty of wear.  I wouldn't go replacing the carpet because as you know not all tenants are careful and you could end up in exactly the same position again.

#24 ~elle~

Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:52 AM

There are 5 stains -  the rooms are quite large.

$100 per stain??

#25 Holidayromp

Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:58 AM

QUOTE (~elle~ @ 21/11/2012, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are 5 stains -  the rooms are quite large.

$100 per stain??


Oh golly what were those tenants doing?  sad.gif   I would try and get what you can from them and use it towards stain treatment and as I said before note on the in-going report.

Have you sought advice yet?




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