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Samoyed or Japanese Spitz?


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#1 *Ker*

Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

I don't think my son's little dog is going to last too much longer. I don't want another toy breed. DD met a Samoyed a couple of years ago and fell in love. She has since said she wants a "big white fwuffy dog". I'm a Spitz fan, but thought maybe a Japanese Spitz would be better due to the size. She's not keen on the Jap Spitz, cause "it's not a big one!" But since I am the one who does most of the dog caring in this place, I get last say. I also thought of perhaps showing.

Grooming doesn't scare me, Spitz dogs behaviour doesn't scare me. I've worked them out pretty well having Snik and other Spitz fosters.

SO because I am a research nerd, and will want to research any dog for about 2 years before committing myself to a breed, what's the major differences between the two in personality and care? Which would you go for and why?


#2 spitzmum

Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:05 AM

A friend who has a JS and Samoyed swears that her JS is smarter and more cunning, faster to learn tricks and therefore more stubborn laugh.gif  I'm not sure whether this comes from their companion dog roots vs the Samoyeds as working dogs (where you get the more "eager to please" mentality, though still spitzy)

I do like the fact that I should be able to pop 2 car seats/capsules in the back of my car and still have room for my JS in her harness - whereas a Sammy would need to go in the boot (station wagon).

It's also the practicality of things - if Ziva is being naughty, it is super easy to pick her up and put her in time out.  I'm not sure I could drag a fully grown Sammy to time out!

As for showing - with only one smaller dog, I like that I can turn up an hour before judging, have her groomed and ready without being in a huge rush.  At the last NSW Samoyed Club speciality show, a friend turned up super early to make sure she had 1.5-2 hrs to groom and present each dog.  Once I got lost on the way to a show and turned up with only 25 minutes before our turn and I still managed to get Ziva done!

Downsides - with OB and dances with dogs work we do, to treat her at the level of her head, I need to bend down a lot.  Not usually a problem until I got pregnant - was just hard on my back.  

Also, I think JS tend to be bigger yappers than Sammys, though I have known one or two Sams who are all-day-talkers.

If you're thinking of a JS, drop me a PM and we can chat about breeders - I'm the secretary for the JS Club of NSW - though we're really a national club with more members from interstate than NSW!

#3 Guest_~Songbird~_*

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:14 AM

.

Edited by *SnowFlower*, 20 February 2013 - 07:48 PM.


#4 Oriental lily

Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

Samoyed aren't that big. Their fluff and chunky legs make them appear bigger.

I would go the Sammy, mainly because I nothing about the Japanese spitz and their appearance remind me of an overgrown white Pom.

And I am not really a pom fan.

You also cannot pass up having a dog with a Sammy smile!

A samoyed broke my heart once. When I was about 10 this stray adopted us. She was gorgeous. my parents said I could keep her if we could not find their owners.

Sadly her owners were found. sad.gif
I begged the owners to give me her lol.
I think they were just as fond of her lol.

For a nearly a year after she would escape her house and turn up at our door. Big naughty grin on her face.

Then the visits stopped.

I still think of that girl often. I would never get a Samoyed myself, I am not really a spitz fan.

But boy oh boy I get their appeal. They have a real presence and sunny attitude about them.

#5 spitzmum

Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE (~Songbird~ @ 16/11/2012, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Samoyeds are beautiful natured dogs and very caring and sensitive towards their owners (and others). Japanese Spitz are some what stand offish and can snap at strangers. I would not get a Japanese Spitz for a child. Samoyeds are brilliant with kids and are one of the highly recommended breeds for kids.

Youtube is a great place to get an idea of these dogs different temperaments. Here is a video of a Samoyed and Japanese Spitz - this is the stand offishness that breeders and Japanese Spitz societies warn of. I have never heard of a bad Samoyed, neither has Dr Harry  wink.gif  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZnVVCZcB2w

Yes - let's rely on the opinion of a vet who invests in cross-breed farms  cool.gif

I have met Samoyeds who are poorly socialised and wary of other dogs.  The same goes for any breed.  

Ziva has done the rounds at country ag shows all around NSW - where joe public comes up for a pat and a chat.  Never has she snapped at a stranger, whether on top of her trolley or on the ground walking.  She's always approached by children inside Pet Barn and has plenty of kisses and cuddles from them.  

While the breed standard says "wary of strangers" - I think the better description is that they are great at reading people.  Where children have no ill intent - she is all kisses and cuddles.  Occassionally she's met a child that just wants to pull her tail (some think she is a weird cat and perhaps exhibit the same behaviour with their own feline friend!) and rather than approach such a child, she'll sit in heel beside me and ignore.

Did I do a lot while she was a puppy to train her behaviour around children?  Yes - but it's the same behaviour that makes her great in nursing homes (handling loud shouty noises and clumsy handling)

Yes, I will admit that there are some lines in Australia that seem exhibit poor temperament - but these are few and far between (and by registered breeders, rarely bred).  I suspect this would be the case in any breed.

As for not allowing a JS around children - there are a number of them in NSW and VIC registered as assistance dogs for children with autism and also doing dog education in schools.  We're expecting our first child in the new year and we had a behaviourist assess our dog so that we could prepare in every way possible to welcome another member of the pack without causing any difficulties.  There is nothing in her temperament (we have been training clients for a few years) that would cause him any concern.

However - every dog is individual.  Would I temperament test the litter I was looking at before choosing a pup that would interact with children - heck yes, regardless of whether I was looking at Samoyed, Jap Spitz or even the reputed "super child friendly" Labrador.

#6 FiveAus

Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

I really like the large, square presence of the Samoyed as well as their perpetually smiling faces. I go to dog shows, city and country, most weekends and the Samoyeds all seem to be friendly, happy and easy to manage.

Japanese Spitz, on the other hand remind me of white foxes and I don't like the way they look. They don't look like small Samoyeds, they look like pointy faced, brush tailed white creatures. I do know one, he's a nice enough fellow, friendly and intelligent.

If you want a "small" Samoyed, get a female. They are considerably smaller than the boys.

#7 *Ker*

Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

I think I'm pretty set on a Sammy. Everything I have read about them, I love - much like the lappie when I first started researching them. I've met quite a few and they have all been wonderful examples of the breed and true to their temperament write up. The first one that DD met had NEVER seen a kid and she was down "speaking" to the dog (in some bizarre language) and the dog was answering her in a whiny language. It was really cute. His owner was quite intrigued at how much he seemed to love her. Both my kids have dog appeal though.

I've only met a couple of Jap Spitzes. Polar opposites of each other! One was friendly as, couldn't get enough of me. The other was very standoffish and pretty much ignored me. Pretty devastating for a dog nerd!

From what I have read, they seem to be a little more stubborn than the lappie. My lappie is pretty easy actually. She's well trained, because she just loves to please me.

The Sammy size doesn't bother me. I can control my sisters 50kg Newf easily. I'm not fussed what sex the dog is. When I was researching lappies, a breeder asked me whether I would want a male or female. I said I didn't care, I just wanted a lappie. And the same goes for my next dog - I just want a dog of the breed I go with - boy or girl doesn't matter. My dogs get along with both sexes, so I didn't have to worry about what sex I brought in.

I still have a bit of time anyhow, I think. I don't want to leave Snik as an only dog for too long if Indi goes first (and I'm pretty sure she will) - I think she'd be devastated. She's never been alone and she's very social. She loves Indi to pieces too.


#8 la di dah

Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

I only have one question.

Who uses "looks like white foxes" as a negative?  ohmy.gif

#9 FiveAus

Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:33 AM

QUOTE (la di dah @ 16/11/2012, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I only have one question.

Who uses "looks like white foxes" as a negative?  ohmy.gif



Last week foxes killed my 16 beautiful, friendly, purebred chooks, so right now, anything that looks like a fox, walks like a fox, smells like a fox is right in my line of fire. I hate the little ***ers.

Edited by FiveAus, 17 November 2012 - 04:34 AM.


#10 la di dah

Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:32 AM

I'm sorry about your chooks. I've only ever seen foxes in a zoo.  sad.gif

#11 *Ker*

Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

I've seen foxes in suburbia. Often actually. We see them run across the road at night. Yet another good reason NOT to leave your pets out overnight.


#12 casime

Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:42 PM

QUOTE
Last week foxes killed my 16 beautiful, friendly, purebred chooks, so right now, anything that looks like a fox, walks like a fox, smells like a fox is right in my line of fire. I hate the little ***ers.


Stay away from the gundog ring then!  The Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers will be in your sights!


Ker, if you get a Sammy, I may never forgive you  tongue.gif

One day I'm getting my Sammy!  One day!

#13 la di dah

Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:46 PM

QUOTE (casime @ 17/11/2012, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One day I'm getting my Sammy!  One day!


No you're not, you're breeding Eurasiers. ph34r.gif You have to.

#14 casime

Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:51 PM

QUOTE
No you're not, you're breeding Eurasiers.  You have to.


Sure, when you supply me with the winning lotto ticket to be able to import the standard of dogs I would want to use as my foundation!



#15 *Ker*

Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:34 PM

QUOTE (casime @ 17/11/2012, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ker, if you get a Sammy, I may never forgive you  tongue.gif


LOL blame DD! I love them, but I would probably get another lappie. A wolf sable, with any luck. But since she met that Sammy, Fletcher, she's been insistent she has to get one. She wanted to name it Tinkerbell. Fortunately, for the dog, the cat got given that name.

Edited by *Ker*, 17 November 2012 - 02:36 PM.


#16 FiveAus

Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:40 PM

QUOTE (la di dah @ 17/11/2012, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm sorry about your chooks. I've only ever seen foxes in a zoo.  sad.gif



Foxes are vermin, They are horrible, cruel predators who kill for the sake of killing. They killed my chooks in broad daylight, and left most of the bodies behind. I have no idea why they kill chooks, the rabbits around here are the fattest, sleekest and slowest rabbits I've ever seen due to the good rains and all the grass. They are prey for the foxes.

#17 casime

Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:57 PM

L
QUOTE
OL blame DD! I love them, but I would probably get another lappie. A wolf sable, with any luck. But since she met that Sammy, Fletcher, she's been insistent she has to get one. She wanted to name it Tinkerbell. Fortunately, for the dog, the cat got given that name.


LOL.   I met a poodle once called Rambo.  Wife chose the breed, husband chose the name!  Funnily, it actually kind of suited him.


#18 *Ker*

Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

Yeah I'm keeping a strict eye on the name. Especially if I'm showing. I am NOT showing a dog named Tinkerbell!


#19 Feral*Spikey*

Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

What about Perriwinkle? (That's Tinkerbelle's sister)

#20 casime

Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE
Yeah I'm keeping a strict eye on the name. Especially if I'm showing. I am NOT showing a dog named Tinkerbell!


Tell her the breeder gets to pick the name  wink.gif   That way you can pick something that ties in with the registered name.

#21 monkeys mum

Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

My parents had a sammy when i was born, gorgeous dog, gorgeous temperment too. I could do anything to him, and every night he tried sneaking up the stairs to my room to sleep next to my cot/bed. My parents think hes the reason i walked at seven months, he would let me pull myself up on him then slowly we'd start walking together.

But, i personally wouldn't get one due to the fact i love Akita's, we had a pure bred show Akita in Sydney that was the best natured dog, perfect temperment and behaviour around a family. We never showed him though but could have, the breeders did very well and had been offered a large amount for his Dad, he was gorgeous too. But, you need the garden for them too, we lived on five acres and he loved it, we occasionally had some adults fron the sn home next to us wonder into our yard and Chenko wouldn't leave their side till someone was there for them. Hahaha i rambled but a Japanese Akita is a lovely gorgeous breed.

#22 *Ker*

Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

QUOTE (casime @ 17/11/2012, 07:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tell her the breeder gets to pick the name  wink.gif   That way you can pick something that ties in with the registered name.


That's not a bad idea. Snikky came already named, so she'd believe that.

Hahaha, I already have names for this long-way-off, non-existent dog. 2 girl names and a boy name.

I love Akitas too, but they are TOO MUCH DOG for me! I like medium - large dogs, but I doubt I could cope with an Akita. The shedding might also give me heart palpitations. I patted one at a dog meet and OMG, hair was flying EVERYWHERE!


#23 casime

Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:13 PM

QUOTE
Hahaha, I already have names for this long-way-off, non-existent dog. 2 girl names and a boy name.


You should see the spreadsheet I have full of names.  A friend of mine and I used to pour ourselves a glass (or more!!) of wine and sit on ICQ and come up with litter themes.

#24 la di dah

Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

I've had two Akitas and adored them (not particularly high-exercise needs as adult rescue dogs, either, and this was living 24/7 indoors with no yard) but if Sammys are maybe uncomfortably big, 'kitas ain't the answer!  laugh.gif

I love them though. Very quiet and calm, not bouncy at all, or loud.

They're not as fluffy as keeshonds, I don't know if lappies are more or less hairy, possibly less (or the same but on a smaller dog). Though I did know one un-showable long-haired Akita and she was a LOVELY-natured beautiful girl, but she had hair for days, I personally had no idea why you'd look at an Akita and go "wait, I know... needs more hair."  roll2.gif

#25 casime

Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:20 PM

I love the look of Akitas, but I had a roommate that had them and would never own one after that.   Oh my gosh, just thinking about it makes me break out in a cold sweat.




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