Jump to content

Travel and educating children - a question


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#1 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:43 PM

Don't know where to find the answer to this, so thought I'd pick the collective mind of EB.

If someone is a citizen of a country where education is compulsory (the UK, in this instance) and they spend a lot of time travelling in other countries, is there any way to enforce that their child be educated?

I ask because my niece is being raised pretty much travelling widely, and we find now that she's currently visiting us that she is 8 and has received no schooling, no education from her mum, I gather she barely knows her alphabet.  Would any authority care or be able to enforce that this child (who is also a UK citizen) should be educated?

#2 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:46 PM

I guess it would be very hard to police, but if the child is a citizen then there would be legislation in place. Of course actually doing anything abut it might be a different thing when they are travelling overseas a lot.

Most parents would be concerned enough to enrol their child in an appropriate distance education facility - maybe suggest this to the mother.

#3 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 14/11/2012, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Most parents would be concerned enough to enrol their child in an appropriate distance education facility - maybe suggest this to the mother.


The mother doesn't want her to have formal education.

#4 Ice Queen

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

Sounds like she has slipped through the net.  UK is a big country with a very stretched and understaffed child protection agency.  Yes, in theory it could be reinforced but she is probably not even on their radar if she has alwyas been travelling.  Someone would have to report it in the first place.

#5 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE (Ehill @ 14/11/2012, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Someone would have to report it in the first place.


Which is exactly what I would like to do, but I am wondering to whom?

#6 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:51 PM

QUOTE (Ange Vert @ 14/11/2012, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The mother doesn't want her to have formal education.



WTF now?

In that case I would be contacting relevant authorities (Department of education/child protection agencies) in the home country and outlining concerns. Also, if they are in Australia for any length of time it might be worth contacting the authorities here. That poor little girl being denied the basic right of education needlessly.

I get that people aren't always fans of the school system, but education is a priority and can be carried out effectively in other ways.

Edited by Jemstar, 14 November 2012 - 02:52 PM.


#7 BobBottersnike

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:54 PM

Ange, here is a link to information about child protection in the UK from the NSPCC.

Having said that, and knowing that they are understaffed, underfunded and overworked, I would imagine that a situation such as you describe would fall most definitely into the "too hard" basket, until such time as they start living in the UK permanently  sad.gif

#8 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:56 PM

Awesome, BTK, thanks.  I'll have a proper look through and see whether I can do something effective from here.

#9 mum201

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:57 PM

Seriously?!?!?!? I can understand maybe not wanting to have your child enrolled in a formal school, but surely doing some form of distance education so the child is not left behind re a basic education such as reading or writing!!!!! That do the parents do for a living?

#10 tothebeach

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:59 PM


QUOTE
The mother doesn't want her to have formal education.

There are plenty of children who do very well learning organically and following their passions.  Not everyone needs to undergo an industrialised education through formal schooling.  There are many unschooling/home schooling examples where children do not learn to read till they are 9 or 10, learn it immediately and take off.  At some point, she will want to read and at that point, I imagine that her parents will teach her.

Steiner philosophy does not encourage children to learn to read till they are 7/8 and most children suffer no ill-effects from that.

Sounds like she is in a very fortunate position of travelling widely and learning about the world.  Unless the parents are genuinely neglecting her well-being, I would let this one go.

#11 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:59 PM

The parents aren't together and the dad has been all but cut out of their lives.  I honestly don't know what the mum does for a living...she and my niece spent several years living on an ashram in India, though, so perhaps the answer is not very much?

#12 Feral Grey Mare

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:00 PM

You would think that travelling would offer multitudinous learning opportunities and there must be lots of times when it would be easy to pull out the books and have the mother run through the basic literacy and numeracy skills and incorporate them with things they have experienced during their travels. What a wasted opportunity!

#13 Percoriel

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:02 PM

I would think that a complaint like this would be at the very bottom of the social services huge pile.

Have you talked to the child's grandparents about it? Maybe a family conference to discuss it?

#14 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:05 PM

QUOTE (Percoriel @ 14/11/2012, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Have you talked to the child's grandparents about it? Maybe a family conference to discuss it?


This post came about because I was talking to my mum about this yesterday.  Mum (who knows a lot more about the details than I do) is very upset because she says that DN wants to read, is embarrassed that she can't, but her mum won't teach her.  Mum has taught her a bit while she's been here, but is frustrated that they're leaving again today and she won't have ongoing support.  Mum even investigated whether it could be reported here but was told DOCS here couldn't touch it because she's an overseas visitor.

#15 Tigerdog

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

QUOTE
Of course actually doing anything abut it might be a different thing when they are travelling overseas a lot.


Umm, I don't see how it would be so hard if there's legislation in place?  The parents would just have to be made to curtail their overseas travel or else face consequences (unsure of what would be appropriate as a consequence though!).

#16 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

QUOTE (It'sallgood @ 14/11/2012, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So this is your sister-in-laws child? Your husbands sister?


No, this is my brother's daughter.  He had a fling with a British tourist 8 years ago...  ddoh.gif

#17 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

Tigerdog, I don't think extraditing parents over something like this would be high on a government's list of priorities is what I meant.

#18 Tigerdog

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

QUOTE
How long are they in Asutralia for? I would think we do have reciprical child protection laws, so perhaps if they are here a while, it could be investigated / reported here?


No such thing as Australia having reciprocal child protection laws with another country, we're lucky to have communication happening between our own states at the moment!  However I would report it here in Australia, if they are staying in this country for a longer period they may be able to enforce it while she's here (maybe too late though if they're leaving your town soon, as you said they are OP?).

Edited by Tigerdog, 14 November 2012 - 03:20 PM.


#19 casime

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overview

Looks like their local council may be who you need to approach.

BlondieUK may be able to give you more info on this as she works as a teacher in the UK.

Edited by casime, 14 November 2012 - 03:15 PM.


#20 BobBottersnike

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

Tigerdog I imagine the cost of it would be prohibitive, sadly. David Cameron has cut a lot of funding from children's services, disability services, and other services supporting the vulnerable and needy and many of those services were working on the clippings of tin to begin with. In a country where Baby P could be seen repeatedly by child services but still be beaten and tortured to death (warning, the link is distressing) I don't hold out a great deal of hope.

#21 SeaPrincess

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

Have you discussed it with the mother at all?  I would point out to her that if her daughter can't read, there is no chance that she'll be able to do what the mother is doing when she grows up herself, which is to travel independently.  What does the mother do for a job that they don't seem to have a home?

I think it is quite selfish of the mother actually.  She'd be better off leaving the daughter with a relative in a stable home than dragging her off and denying her any sort of education at all.

R

#22 mum201

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:18 PM

QUOTE (It'sallgood @ 14/11/2012, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where is he?
It is up to him as the parent of this child, regardless of what country they reside in, to ensure she is educated.
Can he do anything? Does he know the child at all? What does he think?

Tamm


This
Surely if the mum is refusing to educate the child, he would have a good chance at custody?

#23 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:40 PM

QUOTE (It'sallgood @ 14/11/2012, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where is he?
It is up to him as the parent of this child, regardless of what country they reside in, to ensure she is educated.
Can he do anything? Does he know the child at all? What does he think?

Tamm


There's a lot I could say, but I think it's enough for now for me to say that I wouldn't count on my brother to be able to do anything here.

QUOTE (shmach @ 14/11/2012, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think it is quite selfish of the mother actually.  She'd be better off leaving the daughter with a relative in a stable home than dragging her off and denying her any sort of education at all.


Well, it's funny you should say that.  That's precisely what she's done with the twin sister, who's being raised by her other grandmother in the UK.

#24 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:42 PM

ffear.gif

So this child has been separated from her twin? Am I reading that right?

Far out...

#25 Phasmatis angelam

Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 14/11/2012, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So this child has been separated from her twin? Am I reading that right?


Yep.  Did I ever mention on EB that my family is dysfunctional?




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

Show us your DUPLO creations to win!

We love to see the cool creations kids build when they play with LEGO DUPLO. Enter and share a picture of your childs creation for a chance to WIN 1 of 10 LEGO DUPLO prize packs worth over $100 each.

Jammy, Hula Hoop, Rage: Reddit reveals most unusual baby names

A recent Reddit thread has revealed some of the more creative names in the world.

Woman awakens from coma, learns she gave birth

A US woman awakened this week from a four-month-long coma that doctors had feared would be permanent and learned that she had given birth to a baby boy, according to her family.

'Give us a break': mum sent shocking letter over Facebook baby pics

Posting a lot of baby photos doesn't make you a bad person. It may make your Facebook feed a little irritating, but it doesn't make you a bad person.

In defense of the dads who do so much

It's time to shift the focus off what dads aren’t doing and shine it on what they are.

The modern cloth nappies too cute to cover up

If you're only just joining the modern cloth nappy movement, or would like to spruce up your collection, we have to introduce you to Designer Bums.

How breastfeeding can affect your libido

When you’ve just had a baby, having sex isn’t usually top priority. In fact, for a lot of women it rates about as appealing as changing another dirty nappy.

Should pregnant women be allowed to use 'parent and child' car parking spots?

Is it acceptable to use these car parking spots when pregnant? How many of us would admit to doing it?

Healthy baby from sperm taken 48 hours after a man died

Fertility doctors have described their "most extraordinary case" - creating a healthy baby from sperm taken 48 hours after a man had died.

Anti-vaccination mum's seven children contract whooping cough

A Canadian woman who had declined to have her children immunised against pertussis, better known as whooping cough, has changed her position now that all seven of her children have come down with the disease.

How pregnancy probiotics can help you and your baby

New research suggests that taking specific pregnancy probiotics could be the answer to a range of common pregnancy side effects.

Childcare is a big problem, but there's more to it

Let’s keep talking about these issues and not allow them to be put into a neat little box that’s labelled ‘Fix childcare and everything is solved’.

Pink's awesome response to body-shaming trolls

When trolls felt the need to comment on 35-year-old singer-songwriter Pink's weight, her answer was an awesome ode to body love.

Fertility clinic offers egg donors $5000

A national chain of fertility clinics is offering egg donors a $5000 payment to cover their expenses, a first for Australia which is raising concerns the money could act as an inducement.

Baby boy abandoned in India amid fresh surrogacy concerns

Australian officials could do nothing to stop an Australian couple from abandoning their baby son, born through surrogacy in India, after they decided they did not want to bring him to Australia.

Herd immunity and community responsibility: how free-riders can make kids suffer

Individual choice works for haircuts and handbags, but not for preventing infectious diseases that kill kids.

Photographer captures 'unexpected beauty' of birth

If there is one thing Leilani Rogers knows about childbirth, it is that no two deliveries are ever the same.

Expectations vs the reality of making a toddler's clothes

Note to self: less sewing, more life. Not the party dress, but the party. The toddler, as usual, has it all figured out.

Mum meets 'dead' daughter 49 years after birth

In 1965, Zella Jackson-Price was told her premature baby girl had died shortly after birth.

Sign up to our 30 days of #PlayIQ challenge

Sign up to receive 30 amazing tips and ideas for play with baby during the month of April and submit a picture or tip on our social wall for a chance to win an amazing Fisher-Price prize pack.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

Sign up to our 30 days of #PlayIQ challenge

Sign up to receive 30 amazing tips and ideas for play with baby during the month of April and submit a picture or tip on our social wall for a chance to win an amazing Fisher-Price prize pack.

Tips for flying with a baby

Travelling with kids requires a whole other set of skills - ones that I have learned through (sometimes unfortunate) trial and error.

How to stay calm in an emergency

I’m not expecting you to be as calm as you might be right now. What I mean is that if your panic levels are through the roof during a stressful situation, let’s bring them down to just under the ceiling.

Toddler gets 'drunk' after cranberry juice mix-up

A toddler was taken to hospital after a waitress served her sangria instead of cranberry juice at a US restaurant.

Show us your toddlers LEGO DUPLO creations

We love to see the cool creations kids build when they play with LEGO DUPLO. Enter and share a picture of your childs creation for a chance to WIN 1 of 10 LEGO DUPLO prize packs worth over $100 each.

We need to stop using this word when we talk about childbirth

Is it shaming to point out that women are often being let down in birth?

The certificate helping parents deal with pregnancy loss

For some people, this certificate will offer a sense of validation that their child was acknowledged as being here and now gone, and will help them with life post-loss.

The phenomenon of phantom pregnancy kicks

'Phantom pregnancy kicks’ are encountered by many mums months - or even years - after their pregnancy is over.

The health insurance advice you can't afford to ignore

There's one simple switch that could save you hundreds of dollars a year in private health insurance.

4D scans show how smoking affects babies still in the womb

The harmful effects of smoking during pregnancy on unborn babies may be seen in tiny movements in their faces using 4D ultrasound scans, research has found.

The most dangerous toddler food trends

Pete Evans' paleo cookbook for kids caused a storm, but there are plenty of other unsafe food trends for babies and toddlers.

Infection killed new mum of twins

Modern medicine could not save 19-year-old Sophie Burgess who died 48 hours after giving birth to twins in the UK.

How to babyproof your job interview

Once upon a time, I was a fan of job interviews. That all changed after I'd switched careers, had a baby and decided to spend the first year at home with her.

Grieving families give warnings after toddler deaths

Two Queensland families are grieving the loss of their toddler sons after the boys drowned in separate incidents last week.

Man faces jail after giving woman abortion pill smoothie

A Norwegian man is facing jail after putting abortion pills in his ex-girlfriend's smoothie, causing her to have a miscarriage.

'He's a blessing': family of baby born without eyes

Jordy Jackson was born without eyes. He has anophthalmia, which affects one in every 100,000 babies born.

Super fit model Sarah Stage defends her pregnancy body

Model Sarah Stage has defended her pregnancy body after critics claimed her slim figure at eight-and-a-half months pregnant wasn't "normal".

Why I post breastfeeding photos online

I love to take pictures of my children. In some of the pictures, my younger son is nursing.

The day I broke my baby

There are things I wish I didn't know. I wish I didn't know that companies make tiny braces, small enough to hold necks no bigger than a wrist.

Geeky baby gear

If your family is more into Star Wars, gaming and the periodic table than most, you might want to check out these geek-chic baby items.

Grandbabies: the babies born looking old

Not a day under 65 and a lifetime of struggle! That's the look of these newborns, who look adorably older than their real age. Social networking site Reddit recently featured user submissions of adorable grandbabies, here are our favourites.

53 creative pregnancy announcements

Announcing that you're expecting can be a time to express your creativity, sense of humour and imagination. Check out how other parents and parents-to-be have broken the news to friends and family.

IKEA hacks for the nursery and kids' rooms

Are you one of those that know the whole IKEA catalogue by heart? Love their stuff but want to personalise it? Here's some inspiration to help you realise the potential of IKEA furniture and fittings.

36 baby names inspired by food and drinks

A French court may have ruled out Nutella as a baby name, but that doesn't have to stop you from taking inspiration from the supermarket (or bottle shop). See what parents in the US have chosen for their delicious little ones.

Clever breastfeeding products

Check out this range of products designed to help make your breastfeeding journey more enjoyable, manageable and convenient.

 

SIGN UP NOW!

Win a year's worth of toys

Receive a daily email from Essential Baby for just the month of April with great play tips and ideas, then submit your baby at play photos to our Playwall, Instagram or Twitter for your chance to win.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.