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Lance Armstrong


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#1 ~mimo~

Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

Do you think he is/was a doper?

Should the medals be stripped off him?

Or is he just fast on the bike like Usain Bolt is at running?


I think he didn't. From what I understand he has passed every single test.

Can you test blood/urine/other bodily samples from years ago? If not, how can they prove it?

(Sorry if there is a thread already, search not working)

#2 BadCat

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:01 PM

Since they have come out and said they have overwhelming evidence that he is part of a massive doping scheme I don't doubt for a minute that he cheated.

#3 Milly Molly Mandy

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:03 PM

1000 page report of damning evidence. Testimony of 11 former teammates. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck......

I had hoped he was innocent, but no, sorry, he's guilty.

#4 HollyOllyOxenfree

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

Apparently the anti doping agency released a 1000 page report detailing evidence showing that he was a drug cheat. I just can't see why anyone would go to that much trouble to make something up, and I also don't see why you would just shrug and say "I didn't do it, but I give up fighting so you can take away my titles"

He's a cheat. No doubt in a year or so he'll release some tell all book about how he felt pressured and blah blah blah

#5 MrsLexiK

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

I wanted to believe he was innocent but more and more it is looking like he is not. Doping in cycling is massive and I am sure he is not the only one in his team or other teams to have done it in that time.

#6 ~char~

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:05 PM

He's already been stripped of his titles.

Yes, I think he cheated.





#7 Ehill

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:06 PM

I think you need to read the report before you can make a judgement.  The evidence is compelling.

Having said that, I am struggling with it.  This man singlehandedly took the sport of cycling to new levels of fame in regards to sponsorship, supporters, future participants (and kids doing any sport has to be a good thing) etc.  He has inspired millions with his cancer story, he has raised millions for cancer and now.....well now it is all kind of wrong or rubbish or something.  It is like the cycling body has killed its own sport although I know it was the anti-doping agency.  I think people will just be so cynical of cycling now, more than before.

There is this part of me that just wishes it was left covered up BUT I know that is so wrong.  I am a sport lover so I would hate everyone to be cheating.  

Sad outcome.  sad.gif.  I wanted him to be innocent.

Edited by Ehill, 11 October 2012 - 08:11 PM.


#8 Jekaho

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:09 PM

His media release the other month made me wonder if he was innocent (after always thinking he was guilty) - it was a very well worded statement. And it made me wonder if he was innocent or just a really amazing liar. Especially having never failed a doping test.

But the USADA's reasoned decision is so overwhelmingly full of evidence that he is guilty, and not just of "small" infractions. I don't think he'll address it. I think he's over with it all.

#9 Ehill

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:10 PM

DP

Edited by Ehill, 11 October 2012 - 08:11 PM.


#10 Chelli

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:15 PM

Here is a thread about Lance Armstrong that was in the News forum a few months ago.

#11 Sir Dinosaurus

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:18 PM

Guilty.

I'm very impressed that he's still maintaining his innocence, and that whole comparison to the Christians and the lions ... fabulous, that's JUST what it would have been like.

#12 Becky Thatcher

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:23 PM

mimo, I did another thread here http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/forums/ind...004480&st=0
I did not find much lurvve towards Lance Armstrong that time.

Ehill sums up my thoughts
QUOTE
I think you need to read the report before you can make a judgement. The evidence is compelling.

Having said that, I am struggling with it. This man singlehandedly took the sport of cycling to new levels of fame in regards to sponsorship, supporters, future participants (and kids doing any sport has to be a good thing) etc. He has inspired millions with his cancer story, he has raised millions for cancer and now.....well now it is all kind of wrong or rubbish or something. It is like the cycling body has killed its own sport although I know it was the anti-doping agency. I think people will just be so cynical of cycling now, more than before.

There is this part of me that just wishes it was left covered up BUT I know that is so wrong. I am a sport lover so I would hate everyone to be cheating.

Sad outcome. sad.gif. I wanted him to be innocent.



I admire the man. He has inspired many people who have had cancer that I have known personally.But then I like Julian Assange too so maybe I am odd.

#13 Guest_AllegraM_*

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:25 PM

Sadly, I think he is guilty. I adore watching the TDF but this rampant doping throughout the sport makes it hard.

On a lighter note, I will now have leverage to encourage DH to remove his enormous framed Lance Armstrong montage from our living room wall with the plea that it will set a bad example for DS. That will leave only 20 other pieces of sporting memorabillia for me to work on.

#14 B.3

Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:14 PM

I went to a conference in Hawaii back in 2008 and Lance Armstrong was guest motivational speaker. He spend 1.5 hours basically explaining how he wasn't a cheat, how it was a conspiracy etc. Honestly, his talk was well written and he came across as exceptionally genuine. He had me convinced and it's taken 4 years for me to change my position but yes, I think he is guilty.

QUOTE (~mimo~ @ 11/10/2012, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think he didn't. From what I understand he has passed every single test.

Can you test blood/urine/other bodily samples from years ago? If not, how can they prove it?


Through the biological passport but it's still controversial. I think that the most compelling evidence here is really the number of whistle blowers.

I am sure someone in EB land knows a lot more about this than me. About 12 months ago one of my uni lecturers went completely off topic and explained to us how it's done and how it works.  From my vague understanding, it's difficult to catch a drug cheat who is using erythropoietin and blood transfusion as a means of manipulating their oxygen carrying capacity whilst they are still active in the sport. It is different to other forms of cheating eg. steroids which are easily determined in a urine or blood sample. Provided the cheat is taking acurate care of their haemoglobin, hematocrit and reticulocyte levels during their career, it's not until they have retired from the sport and bloods retaken, that it can be determined it they were cheating. Even then it's debatable but no one is going to take a blood test in retirement anyway are they!!

Edited by Bek+3, 11 October 2012 - 09:21 PM.


#15 Lyn29

Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:03 PM

QUOTE (Ehill @ 11/10/2012, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sad outcome.  sad.gif.  I wanted him to be innocent.

Same here - I am so disappointed in him and the sport in general.

#16 ~Nodnol~

Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:04 AM

He's a cheat.

#17 greengoddess

Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:23 AM

I don't care whether or not he takes arbitrarily banned drugs - he still has to accomplish all those feats. EPO doesn't magically send him to the front of the line whilst he sits back and does nothing. He still has to put in the massive amount of training, preparation, work etc. He still has to race. He still has to beat everyone else who are more than likely taking similar drugs. He still had to recover from cancer to become the best in the world.

If he inspired you previously, he is still an amazing inspiration - he still DID all those things you previously admired him for.

#18 Clorox_Girl

Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:45 AM

Cycling is so dirty, I think they should just allow drugs to be used.

As a PP said, everyone else is probably doing it, so Armstrong is still an incredible athlete.

But given he is a cancer survivor, I am surprised he would poison his body so readily. Increased likelyhood of stroke, heart attack etc.



#19 ~Delilah~

Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:52 AM

I want to believe his innocence but no I think he cheated  sad.gif

#20 HollyOllyOxenfree

Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:10 AM

QUOTE (greengoddess @ 12/10/2012, 05:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If he inspired you previously, he is still an amazing inspiration - he still DID all those things you previously admired him for.


But surely those inspired by him were inspired by the fact that he came back from cancer and did those things without the assistance of drugs? Yes, he trained and raced and did all of those things, but he did them with an unfair advantage.

For the record, I think his work with the livestrong foundation is fantastic and I hope the foundation doesn't suffer because of this. But I think if he wants to remain an inspiration he needs to own what he did and offer some sort of explanation

#21 Livsh

Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:21 AM

Cheated, he cheated and worse he coerced team mates to also cheat, I'm glad they finally got him!
He only passed the tests because he was using things you couldn't test for at the time of the test, not because he wasn't using!

#22 lacoste

Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

Hate to say it, but it looks like he's a cheat. How many time he cheated, who knows, but just once will tarnish his name forever.

#23 Ehill

Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:32 AM

QUOTE (greengoddess @ 12/10/2012, 03:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't care whether or not he takes arbitrarily banned drugs - he still has to accomplish all those feats. EPO doesn't magically send him to the front of the line whilst he sits back and does nothing. He still has to put in the massive amount of training, preparation, work etc. He still has to race. He still has to beat everyone else who are more than likely taking similar drugs. He still had to recover from cancer to become the best in the world.

If he inspired you previously, he is still an amazing inspiration - he still DID all those things you previously admired him for.


Yes, I do agree with this.  If I take EPO I am not going to suddenly win the TDF!!!  I think it is more that cycling now has competely lost its credibility and I, like many others, will watch the TDF and all I can think is 'what are they pumping into their bodies'.  Also his foundation has done such great work and it is inevitable that donations will drop as a result of this.


#24 seayork2002

Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:31 AM

I cannot say if he is guilty or not only he know that, he can be innocent and not want to fight it. We can say what we like but is it not slanderous?

#25 countrymel

Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:38 AM

He cheated. He wasn't Robinson Crusoe there obviously!

It was well known in the cycling circles at the time - the only thing that was a cause of envy was how he always got away with it and was so loudly hypocritical about it all when other - less well funded and protected - riders got caught out.

(I had a friend who was cycling in Europe at the time)




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